Rule 42?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by LASERNUT, Jun 17, 2010.

?

Is Rule 42 broken?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2010.
  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    46.7%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Not sure

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  1. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    So what does everyone think. Is he braking Rule 42?

    [FONT=&quot][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkN8X5gwVE&feature=related"]YouTube- Laser vs Finn downwind[/ame][/FONT]

    I've asked an international judge but I'll post his view later on!
     
  2. freeAgent

    freeAgent Member

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    I say yes.

    and

     
  3. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    I am not so sure.

    There are definitely some things that appear to be done that are questionable however you cannot reallt see the sea state easily on the video.

    If you watch the Finn along side him it does surf at similar times to the Laser so he could argue he was trying to keep in phase with the wave to surf as long as possible.

    There are a few times that he seems to miss and take a second bite (which is definitely not allowed).

    Curious to see what the IJ says.....

    Were I against him I would definitely 'have a word' and if not happy with his explaination would definitely protest the next time more to get clarification!
     
  4. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    There are a few suspect motions, including one or two flicks of the sail, but generally the guy is legal in my opinion and pretty damn good at it as he's right on the edge of being illegal.
     
  5. Sailorchick

    Sailorchick Member

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    I've voted in the poll but not gonna state how I voted yet as I know the sailor and have seen the IJ opinion.
     
  6. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    I vote for illegal.

    The rolling to change direction for the waves is no problem and he does that well, and the leech flicks I saw seemed to be from dumping sheet and stopping it quickly which will give an effective pump - once per wave is ok.

    However, note how many times the boat rolls to windward without a corresponding change of course to leeward. This background rolling is persistent and naughty.

    IJs seem to have an increasingly lax interpretation of Rule 42 though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed this.
     
  7. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Right on the edge, alright (as Alan D stated)

    I also second jeffers' post. Most of the time the rolls seem legal according to 42.3(c). But he may have 'missed' a few.

    If I were a judge, I would not give him a warning (or toss him if it was the 2nd time), based on this video/sequence.
     
  8. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I thought there were some questionable rolls, but quite a few did correspond to a change of direction and some were definitely trying to change direction. So I would probably err to the side of saying OK but also maybe a quiet word after the race (something I suspect a judge could not do).

    Watching the Finn, that boat is rolling a fair amount.

    Watching the video sort of gets hypnotising !!

    Ian
     
  9. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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  10. wessel

    wessel Member

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    Is this guy breaking rule 42 as well then?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR7d_4TL1lA&playnext_from=TL&videos=vuGkdIdCrcs"]YouTube- Laser Sailing Downwind in the Gorge[/ame]
     
  11. freeAgent

    freeAgent Member

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    I don't think so. He's surfing the waves. The guy in the original video isn't doing that and is shifting his weight around much more frequently and dramatically.
     
  12. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Lasernut, I can hardly sleep, not knowing what the judge said....

    :) :) :)
     
  13. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I vote NO violation on both.
     
  14. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    Not long to wait!
     
  15. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    Forgot to post yesterday!! Here is his answer.

    " [FONT=&quot]There is certainly a lot happening in this clip that would immediately be in the 'yellow light' warning zone and attract the attention of the Judge.

    There are a number of instances where there is ;
    body induced roll ( 0:19 and 0:55 ).
    pumping where there is no surfing ( 0:42 and 2:15 )
    turning and then immediately turning back to the original heading ( 0:27 )
    course alterations not associated with a wave.

    The body movements would have been better observed from asern ( where the RIB finally ended up ).

    From what I have seen I believe it is highly likely that an R42 infringement would have been flagged."[/FONT]
     
  16. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    At first sight I thought he was violating 42, but after several reviews, (which judges can't do on the water) I felt the majority of his movements were related to course changes and attempts to catch waves. You'll see he does catch a couple so surfing conditions did exist. Hoever, if I had been the judge and saw it on the water I'd robably flag him.
     
  17. freeAgent

    freeAgent Member

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    In tennis there's a saying that a ball can be 99% out and still be 100% in. I think the same concept applies here (though reversed).
     
  18. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    He was doing a pretty good job of bearing away when he rocked to weather until around 40 seconds in. ( the excuse could be made he was steering as opposed to rocking) Then he did three huge rolls to weather and trims while also rounding up that disqualified him.

    I quit watching as he had already fouled out.

    Yes! I am certain my answer is correct.
     
  19. BJ09

    BJ09 New Member

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    I must be going mad! There is a lot of steering to make sure the boat is sailing down the waves rather than into the back of waves.

    The steering is generally matched with the sail trim.

    The body movements are almost always against the roll of the boat. He is moving to try and maintain an angle of heel rather than promote a roll.

    You need to watch the boat not the person. When he leans out he is trying to flatten the boat not roll it to weather.

    This is very different to the second clip. Although not doing anything to stop the rolling he has the boat trimmed in flat water to roll and I thought this was illegal. When he does move his weight it is in direction of the roll and therefore being done to promote the roll.

    Just my thoughts.
     

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