Rudder Tie Down/Loose Tiller

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Deimos, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Its more that, my inland ponds do not have particularly clear water. Thus, with a muddy bottom it is not possible to see how deep the water is. The other day I was told "the banks shelve really steeply", only to find that in reality they don't (and I don't think it was a language issue as, despite my French not being great, I did understand what was said).


    You say carbon and alloy don't mix. What is the nature of the problem and is it a rapid or slow issue ?


    Ian
     
  2. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    As soon as you get alloy and carbon wet the alloy will experience elctrochemical corrosion. In seawater it's reasonably rapid. Dunno how fast in a lake. Just a long life issue for a rudder cleat, it's not like your rig is going to fall down or the mast snap.
     
  3. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Looks like a Black Diamond tiller in the pic above. Mine came with a Ronstan Clead (carbon reinforced plasyic clam type). Wad dubious about its holdong power with the original line (a slightly thinner version of the line shown)

    Went in to the chandlery and tested different lines in the same cleat. Found one that is spectra with a different (more braided) and slightly harder cover (but still thinner than the one in the pic). Since then I don't even have to hitch the end around the tiller for it to grip securely (still do out of habit though most times)

    Don't have the rope brand or cover specs - but look for a braided cover of single colour with an occasional black spec thru it. Tried half a dozen different types in the Chandlery but the one I found works gerat and doesn't seem to wear the cleat either.
     
  4. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Well I re-fitted the little clam cleat I got From PSC (the special one) and, when used correctly it is well impressive. Not yet had any wind to try it out on the water but with one purchase through the hole in the bottom of the cleat you can get it really tight.


    Ian
     
  5. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Rudder Tie Down/Lose Tiller

    49208, this is a bit of a topic change, but related. Does your line have any more "loop de loops" (can't think what it's called when you use line instead of blocks) in it further back under the rudder head to give more purchase?
     
  6. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    no - you can either do the purchase outside the rudder head or inside it, but there is no reason to do both...

    FWIW, I think this falls under the truckers hitch and is a member of the stupid rope tricks.. :) http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/index.php
     
  7. giraffe

    giraffe New Member

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    I don't tie any knots when launching. My setup is a loop of shockcord tied and taped to the tiller end by the universal and a bowline tied in the end of the downhaul. When launching I jam the downhaul in the cleat, then thread the shockcord through the bowline and loop it back over the tiller end against the universal. Takes 2 seconds, never comes undone and keeps the line tight in the cleat (and therefore the tiller tight in the stock). I think i got the idea from an earlier thread on laserforum, but can't find it now.
     
  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Sounds great. But is it legal for racing?
     
  9. giraffe

    giraffe New Member

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    Good question of course, and of course other prople know much better than me how to interpret these rules. However, I'm struck that under Section 3 - options and addition you may make - paragraph 16a specifically (and very unusually) states that "the tiller and tiller extension are NOT RESTRICTED IN ANY WAY except..." (i) it must be removeable, (ii) be fitted with a cleat or similar, and (iii) be straight.
    (I don't think there's any other fitting on the boat which is explicitly "not restricted in any way".)

    The bowline on the downhaul i guess could come under 15(g) multiple purchases allowed.
     
  10. Craigster

    Craigster New Member

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    Fairly new to Laser sailing, however have raced large one-design keelboats and other types of dinghys for years. It's a matter of using the appropriate line suited for the job or what you are trying to accomplish. I personally feel that we get too tied up in all these new exotic lines and want to use "low-stretch" for everything.

    I use a 2 mm cord(comes from Samson I believe, on a spool) that is fairly stretchy, use a cleat and a loop for a 2:1 purchase and tie it real tight. The stretch that you take out by tying it to the cleat keeps the tiller stock firmly seated in the rudder housing and takes up any propensity for the tiller to work loose.

    Hope that helps.

    craig
     
  11. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I replaced the special clam cleat I got from PSE (UK) - on the tiller. Started using it properly and with a purchase loop (which means I cannot lift the rudder fully but enough to be OK). Seems to work very well now. Spectra line comes up from rudder, through base of cleat, back round through a loop tied in the line then forward into the clam cleat. I then just wrap the lose end once or twice round the tiller.


    Most important thing is that is seems to be holding the tiller in fine - without the problems I was initially experiencing.


    Many thanks to everybody for their suggestions and help - solution found.


    Ian
     
  12. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I replaced the special clam cleat I got from PSE (UK) - on the tiller. Started using it properly and with a purchase loop (which means I cannot lift the rudder fully but enough to be OK). Seems to work very well now. Spectra line comes up from rudder, through base of cleat, back round through a loop tied in the line then forward into the clam cleat. I then just wrap the lose end once or twice round the tiller.

    Most important thing is that is seems to be holding the tiller in fine - without the problems I was initially experiencing.

    Many thanks to everybody for their suggestions and help - solution found.

    Ian
     
  13. GBR 134

    GBR 134 Member

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    Re: Rudder Tie Down/Lose Tiller

    I use a standard cleat with no purchase and used to suffer the same problem with a dyneema downhaul. I have solved the problem with replacing the downhual line with standard polyester 8 plait. I find that the tiny amount of stretch in the line is enough to keep it in tension all day and thus hold the tiller securely. However over such a relatively short distance there isn't enough stretch to allow the blade to move back form the bottom pin even in the most outrageous conditions.

    Incidentally being a nooby I want to wish Ross B all the best in his Olympic campaign and hope such a perfect sailor gets the slot for 2012 - but then I am English!
     

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