Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by blacklionboy, Jul 16, 2007.
Not on shore they don't!!!
How so, Mr. rock steady?
BTW should be a pink rombus.
So they can focus on racing each other, and not have to worry about arrogant egotistical old farts like yourself trying to patronise them.
That is a very rude response. I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I believe you think that I am not a woman, but you are wrong. Whatever, you don't have to like me, but I'd appreciate a polite response to a polite question.
I think that there is a fear that the rombus, while meant to identify already separate fleets, will lead to a separation of the fleets even at a lower level., instead of the mixed racing that we have now.
I don't worry about racing against men. Most of them are gentlemen, and the rules take care of the rest of them.
Why do you hide behind two avatars Gouvernail. We all know who you are Fred.
hahaha thats great
I won't explain in this thread why I'm anonymous. This thread is about rhombuses (rhombi?), so let's stick with that. Didn't mean to cause a riot with a serious post. Nighty night, boys.
^^^ Well you are the one who likes to degenerate discussions into sillyness, so why can't we all get involved in your tomfoolery?
At least we can subtract 1 from the "No" votes based on the fact you got to vote twice.
I know dude, its redicilous, ever since "she or he" has gotten here, all seriousness on any topic "he or she" posts on, goes right out the window...
Rib, my sweet girlie, lay down the top of your sail long enough into the white sand near your beach-blanket (pink?) and the colour of the red rhombus change into a sort of pink, I guess ...
But, to the other side, Rib, you allredy sail a pink coloured Radial mai, aren't you? So, the rhombus perhaps has to have not the red colour or it would become "hidden" on your unique sail (pink colour of the rhombus (aft a while) on pink colour of the sail)!
Oh-oh, again, my dear, we have another poor worded class rule... Time to get new and clear ones, baby, correct?
P.S.: At Kiel Week 2007 (biggest sailing event of the world) all the Radials of the female Laserites already had this rhomus at the top of their sails. There it already has been normalty, noboby cared about this rhombus.
Your right LU, it is already accepted at the top level of sailing, and nobody has a problem with it. It's unlikely to ever affect the club sailor in any way.
Your also right that RIB needs a good lie down. He has a distictive style to his posting that no-one else could copy. I do acknowledge that he has contributed a great deal to the class over the years, and I suppose he ads a good deal to keep this forum bubbling along too.
I propose that we all put a rhombus on our sails. That way the women will be in compliance with the silly rule but the power-mad nit-picking politically tone deaf class bosses that can't tell the difference between Michelle and David (or Fred and Ribecca) will go crazy trying to keep track of all the rhombuses.
Rock Steady, I don't understand how a device that's intended to help Race Committee will increase solidarity and bring more women into racing Lasers. Do you think that women are deterred from racing because of the mixed fleets?
Just for the record, I am a woman and I am not Fred.
Merrily. I think you need to see how it functions on the race course. We have lot's of female sailors in Australia and they are all happy to use this system.
They have no problem with mixed fleets, but they do deserve the respect of having a seperate competition at higher level regattas.
Just for the record, I am a man and I am not Fred.
I don't give a rats patootoe whether people use the rhombus or not. But I do love to poke fun at the entire concept.
One good thing. At least Laser sailors will be forced to know a little more geometry than those who dont know a rhombus from a trapezoid.
Of course our sailing kids will always have problems in school until we call the starting plane what it is.
Just for the record, I am a figment of your imagination.
Me too, darlings.
Ludders. Liebchen, I've changed my mind. Girls are allowed to do that, right? Boys do know something. You are so right. What was I thinking with a pink rhombus? The colors likely would be slightly different and they would CLASH! A girl can't have that. But a red rhombus on a pink sail makes me shudder! I'm going to having to rethink this whole pink sail campaign position, as I'm beginning to be pro-rhombus from reading this thread, despite the recent unpleasantness. I haven't voted in this poll, and I won't be able to vote at the ILCA, as I'm a figment of your imagination.
I am a woman and I am not Fred. I approve all positions.
A few facts and reasons on the Rhombus proposed rule change:
1. I understand that some women object to being identified as a women. However there a number of women who sail in mixed fleets who also like to compete for an additonal women's prize. They like to know where their women competitors are on the course.
2. In large fleets, when women have a seperate start and are racing for women only trophies there may also be male fleets racing onthe same track eg Laser Radial Worlds and Europeans, Laser 4.7 Worlds and Europeans. With 3 or 4 fleets each of between 60 to 85 boats they frequently mix on the windward legs and also overlap. Having a quick visual indentification helps both men and women know immediately whether to be considerate to each other by not covering or calling for rights or if they are in the same race maybe be more agressive. At congested mark roundings it also helps to know what the next leg of the course may be for those around you. It can often be different.
3. It is not for Race Committee identification on the start line. Anyone who has sighted a startline of 70 Laser Radial or Laser 4.7 would immediately see that RC's can only work on sail numbers.
4. It is useful for RC's at a finish when for time limit reasons it is important to identify the leader of a fleet that is mixed with another fleet. It is also important for time limit reasons to quickly identify later sailors for end of time limit. Of course computers can sort out mixed fleets but they are no use to a finishing boat when 80 boats are crossing a finish line in groups of 4 or 5 and the whole fleet finishes in 4 minutes!
5. It is also useful fo RC's to know where the first boat is in a particular fleet if a course change is being considered.
6. Could we have asked the men to be identified insted of the women? Yes! Whether Men or Women or tagged makes no difference to te fact that any system will equally identify the "haves" and "have nots".
7. Why did we choose to identify the women and use a rhombus? Because we copied the 470 class who have de facto established an international convention and we have been using it for a number of years at large mixed fleet championships without complaint apart from Lainie Pardey. With RC's used to the 470 system it would be completely illogical to confuse things by adopting a different system that may vary from one event to another.
8. The proposed rule change does not make it mandatory for women to display the rhombus if there are no separate women prizes.
9. For press and TV at major events being able to quickly identify different fleets in when fleets overlap helps media coverage.
10.The system is not new and has been used at top level 470, Laser Radial and Laser 4.7 events for a number of years without complaint. In my experiance by far the large majority of competitors (male and female) like the system.
11. The rule change was not proposed to to waste sailors time or to alienate a specific group of sailors. The benifits affect male and female sailors equally.
ILCA Executive Secretary
I've already weighed in, heavily, on this stupid idea. But since you all have raised it again, and are even taking a poll (which is better than two to one against the idea, I'm so glad to see) here are my 2 cents again.
Sail numbers distinguish sailors from one another. There is no need to segregate fleets by sex with a rhombus on the sail. Race Committees use sail numbers, or sometimes bow numbers for scoring. Finishing big Laser fleets is complicated enough without having to look at the sail for a rhombus.
Having the Radial become the Women's Singlehanded Olympic boat has already pulled a large segment of top women into Lasers.
If they race in events where there are men in their fleet, being as they're top contenders, you can absolutely bet your boots that they know the sail numbers of their competitors.
What this rule will do is DIScourage women from racing in open Laser events. Here's why: the rhombus on the sail will imply, at least to some sailors, that the person sailing that boat is ONLY there to sail against other women. Now, I know Michelle is with me here, in that she races here in Florida, often in fleets almost entirely guys. Guys, especially OLDER guys, absolutely HATE getting "beat by a girl". If they can pick you out too easlily, they will tack on you and mess with you at the starts etc. just to try to keep ahead of you.
If anybody EVER tries AGAIN to make me put a red rhombus on my sail, (as Jeff Martin did at the Masters Worlds in Chile way back in 1997) I will stick it on the seat of my hiking pants AGAIN. Right where it belongs.
Lainie Pardey former Dist. 23 Secretary and NA VP
So perhaps Lainie and Jeff have great ideas. Let's use both rules>>>:
"If anybody EVER tries AGAIN to make me put a red rhombus on my sail, (as Jeff Martin did at the Masters Worlds in Chile way back in 1997) I will stick it on the seat of my hiking pants AGAIN. Right where it belongs."
A fleet where the women hang their pants on the sails??
Separate names with a comma.