Restricted Entry to Masters World Champs

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Grant_in_Qtown, May 11, 2008.

  1. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    I'm wondering if you might be confusing the Laser Senior Worlds with the Laser Master Worlds here? The Laser Senior Worlds are limited to 160 entrants and have many more countries participating so entry quotas for all countries are much tighter (indeed, the NA Region - the US and Canada - only had 14 last year). Given that New Zealand had four sailors at the Laser Senior Worlds in Terrigal, I'm guessing that five is probably the number for the 2009 Laser Senior Worlds in Halifax.

    For the Master Worlds it has to be much higher since there will be something like twice the number of boats sailing (or more) with many fewer countries participating.
     
  2. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Yes, it is set in the same stone that it has always been in: the regatta hosts will set a limit above which they feel they will not be able to provide the quality event that the Master's sailors demand. If demand is very high then, as in the past, I'm sure they will try to raise that limit to attempt to let in as many sailors as possible while trying to compromise the event as little as possible. I'm gathering from Andy's post that this limit has not yet been determined but I can't imagine it being below 300 which is pretty close to what the demand was when the event was last in North America (Hyannis, in the heart of the bulk of Laser sailing in North America).

    What is new next year is that ILCA is being proactive in putting in place a system that will try to make sure that the event is not oversubscribed by the host region before people from other regions have a chance to enter. It means that initially many people from the host region may end up on the waiting list but I'll bet nearly everyone makes it in once ILCA goes through its reallocation process (which they do already for every event).

    As I type this I don't know that the initial US and/or Canadian allocations will be. But that probably doesn't matter, once the allocations are used up the remaining people will go on the wait list and probably get in when ILCA does its reallocations (and remember that one thing Halifax has going against it here is that it violates the eleventh commandment: though shall not hold a Master Worlds in a non-tropical location!). In the end, I'm pretty confident that most, if not all, the sailors who really want to go will be accommodated.
     
  3. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    The apple pie and motherhood response:
    If you have legal residence and actively race in the North American Region then you should have membership here and should enter the event that way.

    The reality response:
    However, if you are also a member of your home country's association then nothing would stop you from entering through that association. ILCA will send the list of people wanting to sail in an event to the secretary for the association you list in your entry and it will be up to them to decide what to do with your entry. I'd imagine if there were slots available and you were a member it would be no problem.

    We're not the police, the number of people that can exercise this loophole is small, the end goal is to get as many sailors in to the event as possible and, besides, it leaves one more spot in system of the country/region you live in.
     
  4. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    Well bummer for them, fancy having to do their job!

    If the class grows, the organisational structure needs to be increased, what would you do?

    1) Remove your participants and associated cashflow?

    2) Or Streamline and improve your adminstration?

    Basic stuff.

    Who do they think is buying all their ILCA class legal gear all these years?

    I don't have too much respect for politicians who whine their job is too big for them. It's no surprise that they then limit participation to cover their short comings and then try to sell you that their ineptitude is reasonable.

    If you'd just all remain controllable and not question that you can't participate anymore and keep buying our class legal gear that'll be just peachy!

    And mate, I'm sure someone can pick the difference between the senior worlds and the masters.
     
  5. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    I don't agree that a bigger regatta is automatically better. For me, the quality of racing is degraded once there are more than 75 or so boats in the fleet. About 55-60 seems perfect, as long as there is enough space to set a decent length course. Multiplied by a potential 11 fleets at a Masters Worlds (not counting 4.7s which I'm sure will happen one day) and that's already a massive regatta - I don't see how going even bigger would improve anything.

    Of course there are ways of fitting more boats in (split fleets, multiple courses, staggered racing, etc) but I don't think that this improves the experience for the sailors - it just adds to the management and cost to the sailors and keeps the sailors sitting around the venue for longer, rather than in the pub where every true Masters sailor should be when not racing.
     
  6. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    If people start thinking that the ILCA is a 'they' rather than a 'we', the class has problems. The ILCA is run by unpaid volunteers elected by us who are supported by a handful of paid staff. They (both the volunteers and the staff) seem to do a pretty good job most of the time. I don't agree with everything they do, but I have a huge amount of gratitude to them for doing it, especially after the great time I had in Terrigal. At the end of the day they are doing it for the love of Laser sailing, nothing more.

    I've been lurking on this forum and the Laser email list for too long not to know why Gouvernail has an axe to grind. I'm not sure why your criticism is so harsh, but it seems to me to be uninformed and misguided. It's the kind of thing that, if I were one of the class volunteers, would make me wonder why I bother.

    And by the way, we buy our class legal parts from the Laser builders, not the ILCA.
     
  7. Grant_in_Qtown

    Grant_in_Qtown New Member

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    To me the issue is whether the World Masters is for the best sailors or for all the sailors. If selection is required then there needs to be other international events for us mid-fleeters. I can think of nothing better than using sailing as my excuse for an exotic holiday but if I have to qualify through my country selection process then I have no chance.

    Management is an issue with a large event. I would have thought that 11 fleets from a single start line was not manageable anyway and should have been on 2 or 3 separate courses. Yes management does need to be ramped up for these events and perhaps that is where the professional efforts of our class association should go.

    By all means have some places reserved for selected sailors (perhaps 100 places based on world rankings) but why can the rest not be on a first come first served basis with each venue having to cater for a large number of sailors. I'm with Gouv - if we could get thousands of lasers on the water at a single venue that would be fantastic.
     
  8. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Insert here one of those dynamic emoticons showing me banging my head against the wall... repeatedly.

    At this point I guess I would suggest that you put the question to your national authority about what they think they are going to do. I've already said that in North America the system will be, effectively, first come first serve AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

    I just don't know what else I can say on this topic.
     
  9. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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  10. suthera

    suthera Member

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    Anyone who thinks that making the regatta bigger will solve the issues is dreaming. The only reason these regattas exist is due to the massive army of volunteers who donate their time freely. These people are not ILCA elected officials, and in many cases not even association members. They just donate what time they can. At Terrigal volunteers had to take a full week off work to assist for the senior regatta. Another week then had to be taken for the Master's worlds. Massive effort - these people should never be allowed to pay for their own beer.

    Was this not the reason the Master's worlds were moved from Portugal to Roses last year? The volunteer army turned up for the senior worlds, but couldn’t commit to another week for the Masters. Bigger event = more volunteers and more clubs lending their response boats. If you want a regatta with more participants you would be looking at outsourcing the event to paid professionals. That really would be going against the spirit of the regatta.

    This whole issue seems to come about from events at Terrigal where 75% of entries were from the home nation. Why not just restrict the home nation to 40% of entires? There were heaps of sailors at Terrigal who bought a laser just to do this one event. They just joined the class for half a season, and are now off to whence they came. The host nation could then split the entries as they see fit, taking into account length of membership in the class.
     
  11. Michelle

    Michelle New Member

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    Yeah, I want to be clinging to that wall waiting for 999 other boats to get pulled up the one launch ramp!:p
     
  12. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    The ILCA is run by unpaid volunteers elected by us who are supported by a handful of paid staff. They (both the volunteers and the staff) seem to do a pretty good job most of the time.

    I don't think they are "unpaid". The ILCA has an office where people answer the phone during the week. If everyone is unpaid what do our dues cover?

    A class of this size takes management to turn out quartery publications and assist with organizing events, sending out items to new members and so on. Management = $$$.

    Honestly, I think they should be paid. They do too much work.
     
  13. ncusdan

    ncusdan New Member

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    I noticed that the qualification criteria are now posted on the ILCA-NA site. The filter they are using is not very restrictive.
     
  14. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Can you post a link or something? I couldn't find anything about that subject...


    Thanks in advance!!
     
  15. fracisco

    fracisco New Member

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    Scroll to bottom:

    http://www.ilcana.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=482&Itemid=47

    Master Worlds: 2009 will be the first time that the Master World Championship will have a restricted entry process. We do not have any preliminary information with regard to the number of berths that will be allocated to North America (CAN & USA sailors only). The regatta will be held in St. Margaret’s Bay, Nova Scotia in late August, 2009. We will utilize the following system to qualify sailors for our allocated berths:
    1)To be eligible you must have:
    a) Competed in a Laser World Championship (Master, Senior or Radial) in the past 5 years, or
    b) Competed in a major North American Master's event (North Americans, US or Canadian Nationals, MMWE, etc.) AND finished in the top 75% of your fleet.
    2)If, after satisfying the above, there are more applicants than spots available then entries will be taken in order of registration.
    NOTE: You must notify the ILCA-NA of your qualification under 1)(a) or 1)(b) in order to be ranked before those who fall into category 2) above. Do so by sending an email message to Sherri Campbell at sherri@odmsail.comThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it prior to the close of the ILCA application period. Include your name, master’s category, and description of most recent qualifying regatta and year of that event.
     
  16. Grant_in_Qtown

    Grant_in_Qtown New Member

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    Good to see it is reasonaly open. Does anyone have any idea when initial allocation of numbers from each country will be made?
     
  17. sailing19

    sailing19 New Member

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    This spring I read through my 2008 Laser class handbook/rule book. The Laser Master's Worlds "policy" is very poorly worded and I requested that the Laser World Council review it to try to clarify how the event is to be run. Everybody is divied up into the different age groups, and Laser vs. Laser Radial groups, but where "Women" fit into the whole thing is not clear. Yesterday I saw on the ILCA North American website they posted a system on how they propose to limit entries at the 2009 Laser Master's Worlds in Nova Scotia. Again, the qualification system posted on the ILCA North American website was very poorly worded, vague, really gave no pertinent information on how you qualify or how you register to get yourself a spot in the event.
    For a different perspective on how an event should be run, see the Welcome Letter for the 2008 US Laser Masters on the New Bedford Yacht Club website. In addition, regatta chairman Roy Tangen said when the club was running the Buzzards Bay Regatta, they noticed that the regatta was being run for the convenience of the organizers, not the sailors. They reviewed their regatta management procedures to "rectify this."
    I also find it interesting that you ask a country to host an event (Canada) and then have the gall to tell them that Canadian entries into the event will be restricted in some way. Were Australian entries limited at the 2008 Laser Master's Worlds?
    The class is supposed to be run for the sailors, that includes ALL Laser sailors not just the Olympic-types. Why not consider making the Laser Master's Worlds a seperate event, not just something tacked onto the tail-end of the regular Laser Worlds? --Susie Pegel
     
  18. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Certainly if the class had any institutional memory and respect for its roots, the only woman ever to win the North American Laser Championships would be automatically invited to and have a place held open for her any masters regatta forever...


    Please note:
    We could easily have a boat ready and waiting for that woman any year she decides to come sail the Easter Laser Regatta
     
  19. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    In case anyone is still wondering, ILCA has posted a nice page explaining the system from their side, check it out on the ILCA website.
     
  20. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    The ILCA is us.

    There is no "their side."

    If we don't like what our ILCA Employees are doing we need to direct our employees to provide different services.

    Note: if you would like to involve yourself in the management of the game of Laser sailing all you need to do is offer and your fleet, your club, your district, and your region will accept your help with open arms.
    It's great fun, you get to be a target for everybody who has nothing better to do than bitch.
     

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