Restricted Entry to Masters World Champs

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Grant_in_Qtown, May 11, 2008.

  1. Grant_in_Qtown

    Grant_in_Qtown New Member

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    I have just found out that from 2009 onwards Masters World Championships will have a restricted entry with numbers of places being allocated to countries. Is this not against the general principals of the more social aspects of masters sailing? Yes, it is important for the top sailors to have good quality sailing but the fleet system can sort that out.

    At Terrigal I am told there were problems with dealing with the number of fleets from a single start line. Surely then two separate courses with independent start finish lines would solve that problem.

    These events are unique events to foster the sport and give those of us in our middle age years opportunities and excuses to travel to new places. It's disappointing that those of us who languish in the middle of the fleet can no longer do that.

    So what do other sailors think? Should we lobby ILCA for a change? Do we need to have other events that can take the place of the WC's for those of us who would never qualify?
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    As usual...This writer thinks the Class is missing the point of its existence.

    The job of the class is not to be in charge while exerting minimal effort.

    The job of the class is not to keep us away and make it easy for the organizers of our various events to run things with minimal effort.

    The job of the class is to organize the game and help it prosper.

    When our class officers and employees start to act as though they are allowed to tell us we have to cut down our game to SUIT THEIR NEEDS, we need to remove them from a position of authority.
     
  3. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Maybe finding a club in the US with the capability to run multiple courses is difficult? They seem to pull it off at Charleston Race Week and Key West with no problems.

    I was looking forward to attending my first Laser Worlds, but now that is in doubt.

    Any specifics on the qualification requirements?
     
  4. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    I sailed in Terrigal and thought it was a first rate event. Perhaps we could have squeezed in 1 or 2 more races if there had been two course areas, not clear given the weather that Mother Nature threw at us the first part of that week. And you could not convince me that one group had any "better" sailing over another because of the staggering of the racing. In the end it seemed even to me.

    Anyway, ILCA has gone over to a new system (described on the ILCA website) for entering ALL world championships which will try to insure that as many people as possible, from all over the world, are able to enter. This has been mentioned before (e.g. in this thread) so it should be no surprise at this point. The basic idea is to let people sign up and then push back to the regions to have them decide how to order the list. If there are more people than spots then the remaining people go on the wait list, if there are fewer people than spots then there is no issue.

    With respect to the Master Worlds...

    1) Will there be a limitation on the number of entries? Yes. Just ast there always has been, the event organizers will, at some point, have a limit on how many boats they can handle. In fact, entries were limited in places like Ireland (300 though they took a few more) in 2001, Hyannis (again limited to 300 but they accommodated a few more) in 2002, Cadiz (again, the same) in 2003 and then starting again in Roses (400+ - the largest championship Laser regatta ever held) and in Terrigal (originally 300 but extended to, I believe, 350 in the end) this past year. Turkey in 2004 and Jeju in 2006 were undersubscribed, my recollection was that Fortaleza in 2005 was effectively limited by the 160 charter boats available even though the venue could have taken more, and the same was true in Cancun in 2000.

    Entries to all Master Worlds in the past were first come first serve. If you didn't register early you ran the risk of ending up on the wait list. In some cases you didn't get in. This has happened to people who visit this forum. Under this system it was possible (and did happen) that certain regions were oversubscribed.

    Going forward ILCA is looking for venues that can handle 300-400 boats for the Master Worlds (and already the pickings get to be slim).


    2) Why go to a quota system? The bottom line is to try to prevent the host country from oversubscribing entries. The most recent example is the Terrigal Master Worlds where the entry limit was hit within days, locking out potential competitors from the other regions (though, in the end, a large number of people made it in through the wait list).

    3) Will I have to qualify to go to the Master Worlds? It depends on what region you are in. In North America we typically send around 25-30 sailors to the Master Worlds which is a fair number. Some of those sailors are "regulars" at the Master Worlds, they train hard and are regulars on the North American Regatta circuit. Some are not and look at the Master Worlds as a great sailing vacation. Its not our goal to break up something which appeals to so many so the system which is under discussion will be pretty liberal and, in the end, will have the barest of filters, relying primarily on "first come first serve".

    There may be pressure on North America in 2009 because the event is "local" to our region. My understanding is that the hosts have agreed to supporting a very large number of entries... I believe it is more than 300, perhaps Andy Roy (a frequenter of TLF) can tell us what the number is. And, as has been past history, I'm sure if there is lots of pressure to take more boats they will find a way to accommodate a few more... So, in the end, it is believed that the venue should be able to accommodate pretty much everyone who wants to go.

    4) If I want to sail at the Master Worlds in 2009, how do I get in? Make sure you sign up the day that entries open. Which is the same thing I have always told anyone.

    I should also note, the Master World's is not a cheap event, especially for those from the US (with the US dollar where it is now). While a great event, its worth noting that there are many Master's events in North America which are in interesting places, are great sailing and are also great fun - all for a lot less money. Check out the Master's Calendar for a great event near you this Summer!
     
  5. Grant_in_Qtown

    Grant_in_Qtown New Member

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    Tracy,

    Many thanks for your clarifications. I also have heard that Terrigal was a great event but if the limiting of numbers is because of issues with handling boats then that is something that can be fixed.

    Selection criteria is a worry. Again I do not know for sure but have heard that New Zealand will only have 5 places allocated this year. We sent 38 to Terrigal (much closer than Halifax but still an indication of the demand from here). We may be a small country but we have many sailors. In the latest Olympic class rankings there are three kiwis in the top ten for Laser. No other country has more than one. So for a mid fleeter like me to gain a place at the Worlds would be difficult in the extreme. Likewise any selection races for NZ will be in the North Island and therefore expensive for southerners to get to.

    Here's hoping that ILCA will ensure that venues can cater for large entries so that there is plenty of scope to get in on waitlists.
     
  6. aroy

    aroy New Member

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    Tracy,

    Nice summation. You nailed all the points. I don't know if the 2009 organizers have an entry limit set for the Masters, but I will try to find out.
     
  7. knot_moving

    knot_moving Member

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    Home The page you are trying to access does not exist.
    Please select a page from the main menu.

    Apparently no Masters events in interesting places at the moment :(

    ...
    its more fun being humiliated by your local junior hot-shots anyway :)
     
  8. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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  9. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Your link was zapped Fred.
     
  10. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Yes, see the note on the front page at www.laser.org. Hopefully its back soon.
    For the major events you can still access the regatta grid.
     
  11. ncusdan

    ncusdan New Member

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    What are the rules for which country's quota your entry is counted against if you live in one country but hold citizenship in another? I am a citizen of Denmark and a resident alien in the US.
     
  12. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Mr. H are you trying to sneak in on this:D
     
  13. ncusdan

    ncusdan New Member

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    Rob,

    Nothing sneaky about it, but I need to know what the rules are so I can act accordingly when the qualification criteria become know. I would also think that this is a question of interest to other US resident Laser sailors who hold non US citizenship.
     
  14. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    I would assume you only pay class dues in one country. I think it would be fair to use that country for quota purposes.
     
  15. Horizon

    Horizon Member

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  16. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    It sounds like bad news for the game overall.

    Like others, I was looking forward to participating in a Masters Worlds. If NZ will further restrict placings, I know of at least five guys better than me, so the dream is over.

    ILCA need to understand that one of the amazing selling points of the Laser is that a boy or girl can dream about becoming an Olympic sailor in the same class of boat he was sailing at age 12. He or she can actually sail an olympic class sail boat at an affordable price. As time progresses and realities become apparent, the olympics may fade from view, but other divisions are still possible. The only thing holding the sailor focused on improvement was themselves and a lofty goal. That's how it works, einsteins! Now the ILCA have stepped in and elimiated the choice. The horizon has been unecessarily removed from view.

    The argument of social event vs serious racing need not be mutually exclusive. Since we're all familiar with the structure of International rules, whether you come mid fleet because you weren't as serious, or as skilled, as the guy who came first over the line is irelevent.

    I agree with gouvernail: Once officials start fluffing their nest and deciding they know everything about everything it's time to turn them out.

    Now you brain boxes at ILCA tell me: What's keeping me and hundreds of others in this class?

    I doubt you give a damn, since there are at least another 100,000 candidates to choose from. But this is how the decline starts. Business sense lads, you're losing it.
     
  17. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Just razzing you:D I realize the topic is serious, but I just wante to poke at you some:p
     
  18. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    How is this about ILCA fluffing their own nests???

    All they are doing is trying to find a way of controlling the entry numbers for the Masters Worlds that is fair to all. The numbers have to be restricted in some way and have been for several years now - without restrictions of some sort, ILCA wouldn't be able to find anyone to host the regatta. I'm sure they have enough trouble as it is.

    Terrigal entries were on a first come first serve basis. This led to 75% of the fleet being from Australia and NZ. Plenty of people from other regions rightly said that this wasn't fair or representative and complained. ILCA are responding and trying to do something about it. Sounds to me like they are doing what they were elected to do.

    I'd be amazed if anyone in the class management would even consider doing anything that might change the fun/social nature of the Masters Worlds. Remember they're mostly Masters sailors who like having fun too. They are simply looking for a better solution to a long standing problem. If you have a better solution, I'm sure they would love to hear it.
     
  19. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Here's one:

    Schedule a master's Worlds at Kingston, Ontario.


    Require a $100 Canadian money deposit to secure a spot and close acceptance of deposits if and only if the entries exceed 1000 boats..

    Let anybody who can find a boat and get there enter and, unless the 1000 boat threshhold is exceeded, don't close entries until the night before the event.

    I imagine the venue that hosts CORK in Europe could handle the same sort of numbers of entries.

    My take??
    The goal ought to be to find a venue that can handle 10,000 entires and to get the 10,000 to show up.

    There are places

    We are tourists with money

    There are places

    Giving up and chopping the game down to fit the ambitions of our officers and hirelings is unacceptable
     
  20. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    So, is this restricted entry thing set in stone for the 09 masters worlds? What will the total entry limit be? How many US slots will there be?
     

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