ratchet block/cam cleat /swivel base diagram?

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by ylojelo, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. ylojelo

    ylojelo Member

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    yeah, I bought the H241 last year, so I got to spread the cost out over time. I used it (well, them, since I have a pair of sunfish) last summer and felt I'd like to add the block for ease of use. A friend had recommended the H241 since both boats still had the stock brass hook.
     
  2. ylojelo

    ylojelo Member

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    the screw size is 10x32, but finding them short enough, 1/4", in stainless steel, is proving difficult.
     
  3. tynwald

    tynwald Member

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    Did you ever find a source for the short #10-32 screws? I've been thinking about making this modification but don't want to start down this path if I can't find all the necessary parts.
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    McMaster-Carr.com has them


    Material Type - Stainless Steel
    Finish - Plain
    Type - 18-8 Stainless Steel
    Drive Style - Phillips
    Thread Size - 10-32
    Length - 1/4"
    $7.77 per 100

    [​IMG]


     
  5. tynwald

    tynwald Member

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    Excellent! Thanks, Wayne.
     
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    You could probably buy just four at a hardware store, but the total price wouldn't be any different. :rolleyes:

    .
     
  7. tag

    tag my2fish

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    this isn't in regard to buying the shorty screws, but more of an update on what I decided to do. I skipped buying the swiveling cam cleat base, instead buying a Harken 150 cam cleat, and installing it on the lip of the cockpit (similar to the method Wayne referenced a while back, might have been another thread). I did buy the eyestrap, stand-up spring, and spring cup (same as ylojelo).

    so here's my frustration: I can't for the life of me find an easy (or quick) way to get the spring compressed, and then get the ratchet block installed with the pin and spring pin to lock it all in place. I think one of the setup/rigging manual shows using 2 pieces of spring to tie the spring down (compressed), and then connect the ratchet block to the eyestrap, and then remove the strings.

    to make matters worse, it seemed to me that the spring was WAY too stiff, and the ratchet block wouldn't be able to swivel when I would tack to the other side. (using the swiveling base cam cleat might eliminate this as a problem, though).

    anyway, I trailer my boat a lot, and I don't want to drive down the road with the ratchet block flapping in the breeze (probably not a big deal - I just don't want to do it), and I don't really want to mess with the string on the spring trick every time I rig up and down for a day of sailing.

    so, I've basically just been skipping the spring and spring cup, and using just the eyestrap with the Harken 2135 ratchet block. I like it a lot, and if the wind is really light, I slip the line down to the Harken 150 cam cleat to cleat the line for a minute or two. I attached a picture of the eyestrap with the 150 cam cleat mounted on the cockpit lip.

    cheers,
    tag
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    I definitely like your setup ;)

    I do feel your pain..., using string I must have launched my spring into every corner of my garage before I stopped to re-think things.

    First, there are a couple of different spring sizes. You may have gotten one for the full-size ratchet block instead of the mini-ratchet.

    [​IMG]

    I think I'm using the H071 w/HSB2 end caps.

    What I eventually ended up doing is compressing the spring about 98% in a vise and wrapping the compressed coils with strapping tape..., which isn't as easy as it might sound. The first 180 degree flip in the vise took the help of a pair of mini-vise grip pliers and some careful handling.

    Tip: center the spring in the vise jaws and hopefully you'll have just enough of the spring sticking above the jaw to slip a strip of strapping tape through and make 3 or 4 wraps.

    Getting the cotter rings on is another fun task. I've gotten better, but those first few attempts launched cotter rings, who knows where. No wonder they come in 10 packs.

    .
     
  9. tag

    tag my2fish

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    Wayne, I did get the 071 spring, but only one HSB2 spring cup (well, technically, I bought 2 of each - hoping to rig my Super Porpoise with the exact same setup for the ratchet block). I'll probably leave it as is for now, and maybe fiddle with the vise method sometime later, when I'm at my dad's house (I don't have a vise).

    So, does your method allow you to remove the block frequently or just to get it installed the 1st time?

    cheers,
    tag
     
  10. ylojelo

    ylojelo Member

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    No, I have never found 1/4" screws. If you buy 100 of them, I'll buy a few from you. I haven't installed it yet since my Sunfish is being stored laying upside down on the ground.
     
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    I have only removed the block once in over 10 years so I could more easily repair the daggerboard trunks upper seam.

    .
     
  12. skutzabik

    skutzabik Sails the Bidet

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    Could you compress the spring with a couple zip ties and cut them off after the install..............
     
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    Might work. The problem I found with string that also might exist with zip ties is a tendancy to slip and bunch to one side.
     
  14. tynwald

    tynwald Member

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    I've ordered a box of 100, so will have plenty to spare. If you want to send me your address, I'll mail you a couple when they arrive.
     
  15. ylojelo

    ylojelo Member

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    that would be great, thanks!
     
  16. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    We all seem to agree that installing a block while keeping the spring compressed is a pain. Not surprisingly, just about everybody that sails Lasers or Sunfish leaves the block on whether trailering or not...
     
  17. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    Adding to Wavedancer's observaion, does anyone cover their ratchet block or ratchet/cleat?

    I was thinking an inverted can cooler or short piece of swim noodle might at least keep the block on it's stand-up spring from bouncing like a Bobblehead on speed as the boat is trailered down the highway.


    [​IMG]


    I think if I needed to remove the block regularly I would swap the standard clevis pin for a quick pin and devise some sort of fast install spring compressor.

    Anyone using the plastic boot?

    .
     
  18. tynwald

    tynwald Member

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    Ok, now what? :confused:


    Thought I’d share some of my (mis)adventures trying to make this modification. First thing I discovered was that the spacing for the screws in my eyestrap (LP91100) was too wide for that on the H241 swivel base (1-1/2” vs 1”). Found that the “Micros” (H281) fit better (spacing 1-1/16”), but still needs a little scrunching to fit. Also, the diameter of the 10-24 x ¼” shorty screws is a little too big to fit the holes in the eyestrap, so had to drill them out a bit. The screws are still a little long, so one needs to make sure they use flat-headed screws to mount the H241 to the deck as ones with a convex top might limit rotation of the swivel base.



    056.jpg


    As commented on by others, compressing the standup spring is always a bear, but by using a vice and securing the spring with two cable ties it actually worked pretty well.



    050.jpg


    The problem I’ve discovered, and don’t see any easy solution for, is that the position of the cams isn’t right to make this system work. The mount for the cams is too short and too low to allow the sheet to cleat. Because they’re below the level of the block, the sheet slips up out of the cleats with any force at all. With the original padeye, the sheet is held in the right orientation to the cam cleats, but with the block, the sheet is being pulled up out of the cleats. I don't think a shorter shackle (try saying that fast five times!) would help.



    002.jpg


    To make matters worse, the strap that goes over the cams pulls the sheet down so it can’t put proper force on the block. You can’t get any ratcheting effect.



    008.jpg


    So, unless I’m missing something here, I just don’t see how this can work. Have people really done this or is this something that “looks like it should work”? If anyone else wants to make this modification, I’d suggest using something like the H144 (similar to what I have on my C14.2), which brings the cams up into the right position. Comments?
     
  19. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    Great feedback and fantastic photos..., thank you.

    I have done this, but with a Ronstan base..., and I believe it had more hight to the cleat platform, as you've shown is a crutial ingredient. I no longer have that boat, but will try and determine which swivel base & cam it was for future reference.

    Much appreciated !!

    .
     
  20. davlafont

    davlafont New Member

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    Here's my question: Why not choose the Harken 2138 or 2139 that have the cleat integrated? Based on some of the discussion, my guess is that no one wants to HAVE to use the cleat, only to use it under certain circumstances. But it looks to me like the cleat bracket on these models can be rotated up and out of the way. If the cams will work with the fairlead removed, wouldn't that be the same a the collection of parts being described? I haven't done the math, but surely the cost difference can't be astronomical.

    All this blocking stuff is new to me; I grew up with the mainsheet in my hand or in my teeth. I never even used the cockpit hook. You can probably guess that I only ever saw light to medium winds... Now that I'm grown up and dusting off the old "Fish, I'm looking into "modern" controls so this thread and others like it are very interesting.
     

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