Phantom versus Sunfish

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by Jim Smith, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith New Member

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    I have an original Phantom from 1978. I find it actually sails slower than a modern sunfish. On a tight haul, it just seems to die when it should be flying. I think the problem is the rudder design, which seems to drag a bit. Does anyone else share this problem. Any suggestions? Has anyone tried retro-fitting a newer type of rudder, and does that improve speed?
    -Jim
     
  2. vtsailer

    vtsailer Member

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    I sail a Pointer 14, which is made from the original Phantom mold. The Pointer 14 uses a different rudder (stock RWO), so I can't really say that I've had the problems you have had. I just bought a Sunfish, so hopefully within the next couple of weeks I will have some experience to offer comparison.
     
  3. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith New Member

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    Cool. Thanks.
     
  4. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    A modern Sunfish has a foil-shaped daggerboard. Is the Phantom's board flat on the sides or foil-shaped? If it is flat-sided, the Sunfish's board is likely what is making the difference. If that is it, perhaps you could get a Sunfish board for your Phantom, assuming it fits in the slot.

    For some reason, the designers of the Phantom riveted the gooseneck in a fixed location, which may not be the best spot. A Sunfish gooseneck can be moved, which can cut down on weather helm (which may feel like rudder "drag".) BB
     
  5. vtsailer

    vtsailer Member

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    My Pointer 14 appears to use Sunfish mast, spats, and gooseneck. The sail is supposed to be about 10 square feet larger, though. I'm not sure if it is, and howuch is due to cut or the fact that it is sleeved to the spars.
     
  6. baseman

    baseman On the Water

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    I have a 1981 Phantom, but the hull and the spars are all that's original. The rudder that came with the boat was not the original. I had to cut it down to the dimentions given to me by another Phantom owner. I'm using a daggerboard from a Scorpion and a Sunfish sail. As BB said, you might try using a Sunfish board. I can keep up with Sunfish and sometimes I can sail faster. I should probably rename my boat as some sort of hybrid.
     
  7. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Phanfish?
     
  8. minas man

    minas man Member

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    I agree with belar boaterhead on the goose neck adjustment as I sailed my first season with a fixed goose neck and boat did not point well in stronger breezes. The quick adjustable goose neck is a inexpensive up grade that will make a difference in various wind conditions and tacks. I sail a Sunfish and not the Phantom so not sure about doing this upgrade to the Phantom rigging.

    ><> Minas man <><
     
  9. baseman

    baseman On the Water

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    I like that one.
    One other thing to note about the Phantom rigging. There is an eye strap on the upper boom fot the halyard, so the goosneck and halyard points are both fixed. I have not tried changing any of this, because the boat seems to perform well as is.
    Jim, the rudder gudgeon on the Pointer 14 is the same as the Phantom. You could get a rudder from J-Point Marine and it will fit. I was thinking about doing that, but I think the rudder would have coast more than I paid for the boat and the trailor, so I just modified the rudder that came with it.
     
  10. vtsailer

    vtsailer Member

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    The Pointer 14 from J-Point uses a stock RWO rudder and tiller assembly. I am not sure of the part number, though.
     
  11. baseman

    baseman On the Water

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    I don't think that RWO makes the blades, just the heads and tillers. I can't tell exactly if the rudder head is stock. RWO has redone their web site and there are not a lot of pictures available. I don't know how to post a link to other threads in here, but there are pictures of the original Phantom rudder and the Pointer 14 rudder head in a thread titled the Phantom sailboat is back. I can post a picture of my rudder if anyone wants to see it. It doesn't look anything like the original. Good thing is, there is no Phantom class, so I don't have to be legal. :)
     
  12. vtsailer

    vtsailer Member

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    The tiller is not inserted, but this should give you an idea of the hardware being used by J-Point Marine for their Pointer 14. Rudder.jpg
     

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