Outhaul/Cunningham Help

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Pedal-Force, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    I'm having some trouble rigging the boat I bought. It's used, but came with a Vanguard Laser Outhaul/Cunningham kit in a box.

    In the box I found 1 small block, 2 medium blocks, 1 block with becket, and two double blocks with beckets.

    There were two control lines, one blue and one orange. There are also 3 pieces of pink small line and one black piece.

    I have a blue control line about 18 feet long, and an orange control line about 13 feet long.

    The black line is 2.5 feet long, one short pink line is about 3.25 feet long, one is about 2 feet long, and the long pink line is about 10 feet long.

    I feel like I'm missing something. I tried rigging today using these instructions but I got stuck. They show different blocks and lines than I have. They don't show any of the double blocks, and I seem to be missing some lines.

    Any help? I'd love to go sailing this weekend (preferably both days if possible) but I can't figure out the rigging.

    Here are some pictures if it helps. Thanks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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  3. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    Thanks. I'm starting to get it.

    I've been trying to use this picture.

    So the orange line is the shorter one, so that's the one I'm using for the cunningham control. Which of the skinny lines do I need to use for the secondary line of the cunningham?

    And how do you rig it so it's only on one side of the boom so you can really put it on tight?

    The picture looks like it crosses the boom, and I'm not sure what length of line I need.
     
  4. MiLLz

    MiLLz Member

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    The way you rig it is really up to you (subject to the rules if you plan to race), but here is a suggestion:

    Sorry had to correct the cunninghame line:

    The two double blocks with beckets are for the cunningham, arranged one above the other, with the lower block's becket pointing up and the upper block's beckets pointing down. Tie the lower bock to the boom vang. Starting at the lower block's becket tie a short control line and feed through the cunningham grommit and down to the back of the upper block. Starting at the upper block's becket, feed a line through the pulleys and send it down through the double pad eye and then end at the cleat.

    The rest are for the outhaul. Small block goes on the clew (I assume attached to the grommet with a hook), 2 medium blocks tied to the mast at the junction of the mast and boom, and block with becket is a floating block with the becket pointing toward the mast.

    The way you string the lines depend if you have the double pad eye/double cam cleat setup or the old school "good old rig" setup.

    Assuming you have the upgraded "double-double" setup, Tie the two medium blocks to the mast with spare line. Tie a thin control line at the cleat on the boom run it it this order: boom cleat, boom fairlead, clew pulley, boom fairlead, back of floating becket block. At the other end of the floating becket block tie another control line and run it in this order: becket, mast pulley, floating block pulley, other mast pulley , down to double pad eye pulley and through the cam cleat. Tie inhaul bungie to boom cleat and hook into the clew.

    If you have the "good old rig" setup, here is a suggestion: Tie the two blocks to the mast. Start with a control line and tie a bowline at the clew end of the boom, with the loop going through the mainsheet attachment, and around the end of the boom. feed the other end in this order: clew pulley, boom fairlead, through the boom cleat, tie to back of floating becket block. At the other end of the becket tie a line and run it in this order: becket, mast pulley, floating block pulley, other mast pulley, and loose line at mast. Tie in haul bungie around the boom, looping around the boom cleat and hook into the clew.

    Note: You will only be able to adjust the outhaul on one tack as the boom vang will be in the way on the other tack. Also, to ease the line you will need to either be close hauled or pull in the sail so far that it stalls so that you can reach the boom and release the line from the boom cleat.

    This link may help:
    http://www.laserxd.com/laser-xd-rigging.php

    Have fun this weekend!
     
  5. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Despite being "one design", the rules actually allow quite a bit of variability in how the control lines are rigged. BTW, very few people rig exactly like the LP instructions. I find it's a good idea to look at other people's boats and ask them about their rig.
     
  6. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    Yeah, that's kinda what I'm doing here I guess. I don't know anyone around here that sails Lasers, especially not at this time of year. I don't have any examples to follow except the internet, so I'm just trying to find a starting point.

    I don't really know enough to just wing it, and I don't know what I want really.

    I think I might have it now. Gonna try a dry rig in a few minutes, I still need to drill out the vang tang as well so the pin fits.
     
  7. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    Well, the dry rig went ok. It was a bit windy out. Not sure how windy, my parent's stole my anemometer I think.

    I think I figured out how I'm gonna rig the outhaul, without quite as much purchase. The vang doesn't run all that well, but I guess that's what happens with 15:1 purchase. The double block at the top of the vang also likes to twist 90* so that the lines don't run straight. The cunningham I had rigged, well enough I suppose.

    I remembered what I hated about rigging the laser. It's that the sail sits there flogging itself to death for 30 minutes, and trying to rip the boat off the dolly.

    Everytime I try to get the outhaul rigged, the wind shifts and rips the sail away from me. Tying bowlines onto a line that's trying to be ripped out of my hands isn't my specialty.

    If there was one thing I could change about the Laser it's that I would add a halyard and mainsail track. I realize that adds a lot of cost, but it would be worth it to me.

    Any ideas on any of this? I wish there was someone near me who sails a Laser who could help me rig and show me all the tricks.

    I'm gonna try and go out tomorrow for a sail. Not sure what I'm gonna wear. High is around 60, but the water temp is still only 46. I think I'm gonna roast in a drysuit, but I dunno. I have a full wetsuit, 3mm.

    Sailing is a lot more complicated than cycling.


    edit: Weather report shows 11 knots gusting to 17. Very shifty.
     
  8. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Many let the clew fly free until you are done rigging. Once you are close to launching, attach the clew to the boom. I use a (Harken) clew hook, but many others use a clew strap.
     
  9. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    I have the clew hook/sleeve thing.

    So you rig the outhaul all the way, run it through the fairlead, and then when you're done with everything else, you run it through the block on the clew and then tie it off to the fairlead?

    And then do you wait to rig the mainsheet until you're on the water and the boat naturally points head to wind?

    Maybe it's my order that doesn't make sense. The guides all have you rig the outhaul pretty early, but obviously as you point out it's easier to wait.

    I'm thinking maybe this order:

    rudder/tiller
    step the mast
    rig vang
    rig cunningham
    go change clothes
    get boat down to the water
    rig outhaul
    put boat in water
    put dolly back
    rig mainsheet the rest of the way
    put rudder down and daggerboard in
    go sailing?

    Does that make sense?
     
  10. MiLLz

    MiLLz Member

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    I find it difficult to rig the outhaul on the water with the sail fighting me and with other boaters getting impatient at the launch. You might prefer hooking it up on land and easing the main. Beware the boom swinging back and forth.
     
  11. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    With the sleeve/hook you can have the outhaul fully rigged, mainsheet rigged and everything except sail clew not hooked to boom.

    My personal rigging order:

    Outhaul - left mostly rigged to outboard end of boom, left rigged through deck blocks and cleats (single goosneck block left with its short line loose).

    Mainsheet left fully rigged all the time.
    Cunningham left mostly rigged entire time i.e. through deck blocks and clear and most purchases left on line. Single line that lasses through sail eye and back to kicker cannot be left rigged but left attached to rest of cunningham.

    So, on arrival at club:

    1. Join two mast sections
    2. Put on sail and fit battens
    3. Lay dagger board in boat
    4. Fit rudder & tiller & bung & tighten traveller & close broken bailer.
    5. Lay kicker(vang) on deck. (takes seconds)

    6. Move boat near water and get changed

    7. Fit mast (sail flapping) - after checking mast foot and mast step are clean. (takes seconds)
    8. Fit kicker (after looping mast retaining line over kicker tang on mast, tying free end of kicker line to top forward end of dagger board) i.e. one fastpin and the slotted thing to fit kicker (takes seconds)
    9. Tie gooseneck block for outhaul (the one that was loose on the outhaul line with a 12" ish line attached - i.e. just needs a single bowline knot to rig outhaul. (takes seconds)
    10. Cunningham block attached to top of kicker, free Cuningham line through sail and back to kicker (I use block on kicker with becket so tie line to this becket, I don't go back down to the pin as in the pic. showing fast/push pins). i.e. needs one fastpin and single bowline knot to fit Cunningham. (takes seconds)
    11. Fit wind indicator (takes seconds)

    13. Boat down ramp to water.
    14. Use clew outhaul hook to attach sail to boom (tighten outhaul a bit so sail does not fall out). (takes seconds)
    15. Launch
    16. Fit daggerboard (shock cord through mast retainer line loop and attach to bow), get in and go (takes seconds)
    17. Push down rudder and tighten line to keep tiller in/rudder down. (seconds)

    Looks like a lot but most of above take longer to read than do. Sitting at home thinking I've probably forgotten something really important and will feel very stupid. But I have little problem matching Paul Goodison's 10 min thing (excluding the getting changed and moving boat around) - except I am starting with quite a lot of stuff already mostly rigged (outhaul, Gunningham, mainsheet, etc). The stuff I leave mostly rigged I leave mostly rigged all the time, when towing, always.

    When I first got the Laser it took a lot longer but you quickly get used to it and find your own best way and get very quick. I suspect different people have different ways and they are probably mostly right.

    Ian
     
  12. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    So I got rigged fine yesterday, well, except for the clew disaster, but that's another thread.

    I had a bit of annoyance with the cunningham line after it runs through the cunningham grommet. It's hard to untie that tiny line.

    On the Shcroth fiberglass site he shows a shackle used here, but doesn't comment on whether it's legal. I'm going to do it anyway and just change it for regattas if it's illegal, but I wanted to know.

    I don't see anything in the rules prohibiting it, but I'm not sure.

    [​IMG]

     
  13. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    Anyone have info on the legality of that cunningham rig? I bought the hook and rigged it last night for this weekend's sailing, gonna save me some time. Much nicer than untying that tiny line.

    I read somewhere that it wasn't legal last year, but there was a vote about it for this year's rules. I can't find the outcome of that vote, and I can't decipher the legalese in the rules.
     
  14. MiLLz

    MiLLz Member

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    I'm no measurer, but from the rule excerpt you provided in your previous post it looks like the cunningham is "securely attached" and it sounds like there is no restriction on how that "secure attachment' is made between the cunningham control line and the boom vang attachment point. Personally I tie a stopper knot, make a loop, stick the loop through the attachment point, stick the knot through the loop, and pull tight.
     
  15. PiersHS

    PiersHS Member

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    If you do that- your sail won't last long....

    My method is

    1. Get Changed
    2.Get boat to the beach,
    3. Fit rudder/tiller
    4.Fit the two mast sections together
    5.Put the sail on the mast
    6. Lay the rig on the ground with the mast 90degrees to the wind
    7.fit boom, cunningham, vang, outhaul,
    8. lift up the rig and pivot it into the step,
    9.Put all the controllines through cleats etc,
    10. Lauch boat- go sailing

    This way means the sail lasts as long as possible as it is not flogging

    There is a good video here from Jon Emmet
    rigging-
    De-rigging- [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KBIRMRjBrI"]YouTube - Jon Emmett recovering and derigging[/ame]
     
  16. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    for the cunningham, use bowline knots, attach one of the double beckets to the vang (block A), tie a shorter line to the becket on block A, this short line will go through the tack on the sail and attach to the other double becket (block B), the longer line is the cleated line which you'll use to control the cunningham, tie the cleated line to block B then run the line down, up, down, up, it will then run through the deck blocks and into the deck cleat, I like to put a D shackle on block B where the short line attaches, this way you don't have to tie a bowline when its really cold and it rigs quicker. Keep the cunningham attached to the vang and all you need to do is un-attach block B from the short line and take the cleated line out of the cleat and deck block. This is similar to my old setup.

    For the outhaul there are a few ways to do it, I changed my setup this year and haven't had time to take pics but, here is my old outhaul setup which is pretty easy to rig and functions well http://www.laserxd.com/laser-sailboat-outhaul.php
     
  17. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    Yeah, I've got it all figured out now. Thanks.
     
  18. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I guess everybody finds a quick way that suits them. I would find rigging everything on the ground a real nuisance. Probably a lot easier if you are on a nice hard concrete surface with loads of room, bit other places it strikes me as a great way to get muck all over your mast/sail and into the mast step. I put sail on mast and leave it lying on the boat (fitting sail to mast is something easy to do without either touching ground. Get changed then step mast, fit boom, etc. so sail still flapping for minimum time).

    But not being critical of those who do things differently as I appreciate everybody finds their own best way - and as long as we all get out on the water, that is the most important thing.

    Ian
     
  19. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    The way I've started doing it is taking the spars out of their bag and laying the mast on the ground (so far I'm always rigging in a parking lot, so no mud or sand).

    Lay the rolled sail on the ground, still in its bag.

    Put the boom on the deck, already half rigged. Just run the mainsheet through the traveler and knot, and run the other end through the block. The outhaul is already rigged to the front of the boom.

    Put the vang on the boat, put the rudder and tiller/ext in, lay the board in the cockpit.

    Run the cunningham control line through the cleat.

    Unroll the sail and put it on the mast. Put the battens in. Step the mast.

    Run the outhaul through the mast block, the turning block, and through the cleat. Run the cunningham line through the mast and use quick hook to attach to bottom becket.

    Go sailing. With the new stuff it's amazingly fast to rig.
     
  20. Pedal-Force

    Pedal-Force Member

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    So if you're gonna do this, don't get the shackle size he seems to list on his website. It doesn't fit through the sail grommet on my Intensity Sail, which makes it pretty useless.

    Anyone know which one actually fits? I'm not sure how he was using his, but it definitely doesn't fit through the grommet. I checked my class sail and it doesn't fit there either.

    This is the smallest Wichard Snap, so it will have to be something else.
     

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