One of lasers crap designs !!!

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by sailingmania, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. sailingmania

    sailingmania New Member

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    Hi was rigging my laser the other day and realised the controls for the cunningham and outhaul both run either side of kicker. as in laser sailing you need to keep a bit of kicker on downwind, (it was also quite windy) i decided to leave outhaul on tight instead of struggling to pull it back in at end of downwind leg. as i let out the sail it found the kicker was tightening the outhaul, or the cunningham on each tack. it sprang to mind why does lasers have the controls led to the cockpit in that way?

    e.g. why can't the outhaul be on a cleat just ibfront of the mainsheet under the boom where you can just grab it and pull keeping the same purchase. keeping the kicker in the same place, and the cunnungham should be led to a different kicker system with another cam cleat on the side for the cunningham to be adjusted like the kicker.

    if anyone has an explanation that would be greatly appreciated, or any opinions.
     
  2. pez

    pez Member

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    Maybe I didnt read it correctly, but it seems something is amiss with my understanding of your rigging... from what you are saying I get the impression that the boom is moving outboard without the mast spinning in the step... which doesnt seem possible to me...
     
  3. sailingmania

    sailingmania New Member

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    what im saying is when the boom and mast rotate ans twist in mast step as you bear away the control lense remain fixed on the boat by the mast pot. this is where it creates tension and is a crap design.
     
  4. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    What I can't figure out, is why someone who can't be bothered to make any adjustment at all between the upwind leg and downwind leg " decided to leave outhaul on tight instead of struggling to pull it back in at end of downwind leg" would bother to complain about a less-than-one-inch adjustment in the pre-purchase line due to a (relatively) inexpensive and simple routing - leading to a post-purchase 1/4" to 1/8" adjustment in the actual position of the clew or tack.
     
  5. harraz

    harraz New Member

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    and what's up with the picture!
     
  6. Krycek

    Krycek Member

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    IF there is a problem, it is with your rigging, not the design. On a properly rigged boat at most you might see a cm or two of tension on the line if you are on a broad reach to a run. Given that the system is a 6:1 outhaul and a 10:1 downhaul, you're only going to see a 1/6 or a 1/10 of a cm of adjustment on your sail.

    If you can see a difference in your sailing with that much of tension increase... please.... teach me how to trim my sail.

    And... perhaps you should sail the boat more than once before you decide to criticize a tried and true design?
     
  7. beaker

    beaker hi

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    Cunningham always had that problem. But it is better than having your mastfall out.
     
  8. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    OK I was at work earlier and in kind of a bad mood, so my reply was a little harsh.

    To answer the stated question:

    The rig you propose

    1. For the outhaul would correct the minor problem you've observed, but at the cost of making it harder to reach and adjust the outhaul while under sail, as the outhaul line would fall away from the boom, toward the leeward side, and thus be harder to reach while hiking. More importantly, the lead from the cleat would be such that you could only recleat from a fully "in the cockpit" position, so you'd have to come in fully off a hike in order to make any adjustment. As opposed to now when all you need to do is remember to toss the outhaul and cunni control lines onto the "correct" side in anticipation of a tack, start, rounding, etc...

    2. For the cunningham, your proposed rig would not change the problem you've observed -- the line would continue to be tensioned, on one tack or the other, by the rotating boom vang becket. The effect (which I've already observed to be minimal) would be further cut in half, though.
     
  9. sailingmania

    sailingmania New Member

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    two things one

    the picture is paul goodison (as i don't yet have a pic of me sailing at 40kts) lol

    and i see your point, i must not have the correct outhaul purchase as i have not checked it i left it the same when i brought the boat.
    any ideas where to fing the maximum outhaul puechase that is legal for a laser (a link would be nice).
     
  10. Mattcm

    Mattcm Member

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    Here is one on the rooster australia site, I don't know why its not on the main Rooster site or maybe I have missed it.

    http://www.roostersailing.com.au/bo...g-we-legally-have-boosted-the-xidp200950.html

    Basically stock vang, cunningham is 2 double blocks, 10:1 i think and i think this is stock on lasers in US

    Outhaul is main line through clew block, through fairlead on end of boom and then has 2 double blocks.

    This setup is max purchase for everything, however weigh up what system you want as the more purchase the more line in the cockpit and you may not need lots of purchase if you are a heavyweight.

    Some other sites:
    http://www.jdemarine.com/laser__rigging.htm

    Fred's page - http://www.schrothfiberglass.com/RiggingforLaser.htm

    and also - http://www.wvaegir.nl/newrig_2.html

    check all these out and some of the other sailors at your club and then go get some line and blocks and set it up.
     
  11. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I'd like to see a pic of anyone sailing a laser in 40 knots.
     
  12. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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  13. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Try adjusting the position of the turning block near the goosneck that re-directs the outhul line down to the deck blocks that turn it back to the cleats.

    Some people fix the turning block too close to the mast so when the mast turns it changes outhul tension.
     
  14. bheussler

    bheussler New Member

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    those sites look a little old but good tips!
     
  15. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    I've never had the issue you speak of.

    I've also never had an issue with my outhaul.

    I run two single blocks for my cunningham. Don't know what purchase that would make it, but it's easy to pull in and lets off easy.

    I also rig my outhaul at the back of the boom, which I much prefer to at the front.
     
  16. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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