"New" Rigging Rules

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by will162878, Feb 6, 2003.

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What do you think of the October 2001 rules amendments?

  1. Good

    12 vote(s)
    92.3%
  2. Bad

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  1. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    After a complete season's racing/sailing since the rules updates were introduced by the ILCA, most sailors that are going to use the new systems have probably worked out whether the new kit is good, bad or indifferent.

    This is the second time I have conducted an online poll testing public opinion of the new rigging rules. The last poll was carried out before the main northern hemisphere sailing season began and gave a result strongly in favour of the new rules:

    Pre-2002 Season Poll Results:

    New rules are good: 90%
    New rules are bad: 10%

    At the time, I promised a repeat poll after one season's sailing and I feel this forum format is more open and more easily used than the previous e-mail format.

    As well as the poll, I would be intersted in any comments any of you have about the new rules, here are some things to consider:

    1. Price
    2. Ease of use
    3. Effectiveness
    4. Performance
    5. How does it affect the one-design concept?
    6. Are the new systems to restrictive?
    7. ...or too "free"?
    8. Has your 15:1 kicker/vang snapped your top section?
    9. Have the systems changed your sailing style?
    10. Which parts of the rules need further refinement?
    11. etc etc...
      [/list=1]

      Post your comments below...
     
  2. laser161116

    laser161116 New Member

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    The new rigging is like a godsend. You can actually control your sail in changing wind conditions or for whatever. I would never give it up.

    Although I like the rigging, there might have been a reason that it wasn't used before 2001. They are a little strong for the rig. When I go out in windy conditions, I can see an obvious bend in by boom, and am scared of breaking my upper mast. I think that in a couple of years, the class will allow carbon spars.

    ...not that I mind. Carbon spars, although expensive, would be pretty cool.
     
  3. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    So where does the ILCA have to draw the line between improving the laser and the strict one-design? Improve with technology developments or stick to a known formula?
     
  4. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    Doesn't anyone have anything negative to say about the new rules?
     
  5. laser161116

    laser161116 New Member

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    somebody must - there is a vote for bad.

    I have heard that the new rigging is too strong for the rig. (wow this sounds familiar) A guy I sail with broke an upper mast with the vang and bent booms aren't uncommon
     
  6. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    But is that using the standard 15:1 system? I use a 12:1 because I find thats pleny enough power.
     
  7. laser161116

    laser161116 New Member

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    yeah. he was using the 15:1 Harken upgrade. Did you just upgrade your old vang system with new blocks
     
  8. Matwing

    Matwing New Member

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    Hey you can bring down a mast on an ocean racer with Hydraulic controls too. You obviously need to know when to stop! The trick is to do the job with the least amount of purchase. Don`t install a 15to1 Vang if you`re strong enough to easely control your sail with 8to1. Who needs all that rope in the way and you`re likely to bend things in the heat of the moment. And please don`t talk about carbon spars ...
     
  9. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    I use the new system but instead of the doublew/becket floating block, I just use a double without a becket.
     
  10. Fuzzy Metal

    Fuzzy Metal New Member

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    Has anyone rigged the new vang as a 8:1 (thats all I need). I have my old vang set up with blocks and it works great allthough I would like to use the new vang since the cleat is WAY better then the old v-jam. I think the 15:1 is over kill even 12:1 is too much. There is little old school in us all.
    steve.
     
  11. laser161116

    laser161116 New Member

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    try and see how many blocks you can skip (skipping blocks with the spectra line will have more impact)
     
  12. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    8:1 is basically the old system without the friction.
     
  13. Flying Monkey

    Flying Monkey New Member

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    The on;y thing I don't like about it is the price. The vang price is fine but the deck plates are outrageously priced. But I like the new controls
     
  14. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    They're badly priced ofr two reasons: Holt are greedy and they are moulded (looks injection moulded to me) which means they have high setup costs.
     
  15. Flying Monkey

    Flying Monkey New Member

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    It would be nice if the rules allowed to manufacture your own plates with restrictions of course and then there would be some cheaper after market stuff
     
  16. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Wishful thinking but it will never happen. It's not just Holt that is making a profit (and driving the prices up) it's the distribution model that the class uses (Holt marks it up and sells to the class approved builder who marks it up and sells to dealers who mark it up and sell to you).

    If you can get blocks,line and cleats at a discount or have some spares sitting around from another boat, you can save some $$ by buying just the cleat base and the block base. That comes to around $66 at places like APS.
     
  17. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    $66 is even more expensive than they are in the UK. In US$, the UK prices would be around half that.
     
  18. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    Reverse the old vang

    I make cheap vang upgrades by adding cheeks (old ones from my J24) and a double at the old Boom block. 12:1 is ok, but i still like the 15:1 for ease of use off wind, like resetting before the leeward.

    Reverse the blocks, so the V slot jammer block is on the boom. With a swivel, this aligns the angle so that its perfect and facing you as you trim/ease while hiked out, or trim/ease offwind.

    Try it sometime, I like it better than the Harken, and of course, it's cheaper.
     
  19. will162878

    will162878 New Member

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    The jammer on the boom makes it a lot harder to use because it makes letting the tension very difficult to do quickly.
     
  20. drLaser

    drLaser Member

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    Will Richards wrote (some time ago in this thread):
    > Doesn't anyone have anything negative
    > to say about the new rules?

    I may, with your permission!

    What "new rules"?

    These "new rules" have been around for a while now (since 2001), but no one that I know of knows what some articles of the new rules really mean. We even held the 2002 Worlds without a clear understanding of these rules. It's a shame!

    Case in point, John Dawson-Edwards, the new ILCA-NA Treasurer, asked in the February 19 meeting of the Executive Committee of ILCA-NA for the details of the rules interpretations that had been made by Chief Measurer so far, noting he was advised at Hyannis that rulings existed but no one had ever been able or willing to show him such interpretations!

    Yes, one Chief Measurer, the one who drafted the rules, resigned at the Worlds, and a new Chief Measurer was appointed, but that probably made the language of the rules even harder to interpret properly.

    NA President Ryan Eric Minth was supposed to confirm the status of such interpretations. And the March 19 meeting minutes indicated that "the interpretations should be up by April 15th". We are approaching May 15th, and we are still in the dark.

    What's more, this uncertainty is nothing new or recent. As of the moment the new rules were published, that there were close to forty ambiguities or small errors in the new rules was known. ILCA, the Chief Measurer and the World Council were informed repeatedly, privately as well as publicly on the NA Mailing List. Alas, no resolution of the issues has been reached so far.

    So, yes, I do have some problems with the new rules. I don't know what they are.

    For example, I have no idea which rule the (quite common) outhaul rig that uses two separate blocks at the mast/goosneck junction is based on.

    I still don't know whether my downhaul with a short length of line looped through the cunningham grommet and with a block at the bottom of that loop is legal or not.

    No one knows yet whether, if I custom make a new block or cam-cleat, I will count as a "Supplier".

    Currently, there is only hearsay. Comments and speculation. When will these rules be cleaned up and published so that everybody can understand the same thing when they read them?

    As things stand, certain opinions are rendered by some measurer somewhere, and only the participants of that regatta get to learn them, or abide by them. That's not one-design Lasering. That's an elitist class management style that tries to regulate and guide only the hot-shot racers.

    This much complaining is enough!

    As for the concept itself, I think it has and will do wonders for Laser sailing.

    Shevy Gunter
     

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