New Olympic Reggatta Format

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by OliLaser, Jan 29, 2006.

  1. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    What does everyone think of the new scoring system used at the miami ocr and going to be at the olympics
    I dont like it at all
    any thoughts
     
  2. rock steady

    rock steady New Member

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    Yeah, it seems like some sort of compromise between the old system, and a new "exciting" format to get more non-sailors following the sport. Problem is that it is so complicated very few non-sailors will understand it.

    It's already been used in a couple of regattas in Australia, and the feedback from competitors was pretty negative. I'll reserve my judgement till after the 2008 olympics.
     
  3. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Let's focus this discussion a bit. There are two issues:

    The Medal race is only for the top 10.
    The Medal race counts double.

    Neither concept is hard to comprehend. But whether these changes will improve the public's perception of sailing in general and/or Olympic sailing remains to be seen. Personally, I doubt it, but it's worth a try IMHO.
     
  4. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    This format may be appropriate and necessary for an Olympic regatta. It is extremely unsuitable for the rest of us mere mortals.

    I doubt we will see anything like it appear in the NOR for local regattas. If so, someone needs to take the PRO behind the clubhouse for a little discussion.

    What I fear is it will creep into high-level class evens like Nationals or Cork. The Laser class was running events like these for regular class members long before the Laser became an Olympic class, so there is no reason for them to be run like an Olympic regatta.
     
  5. archcat

    archcat New Member

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    I haven't seen the new system...but if anyone thinks by changing the scoring system it will get people to watch...well, I want what they are smoking. If you want poeple to watch the solution is simple. Marketing. Let's face it when it comes to the Olympic..at least here in Canada(even thow I'm in England right now) None of the major networks broadcast the sailing events. We get NBC and I never see it on there broadcast either. If it ain't a big number viewing even, you will just get highlights of what happened. Hell last Olympics the Canadians won a medel (not lasers) and we got the highlights.

    My 2 cents worth.

    Cheers
    Mark
     
  6. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think they are just changing the scoring. Maybe my recollection is wrong, but I think that in the final race there will be no protests allowed. It's settled on the water in the race. In other words, a free-for-all. A sailing smack-down.

    So everything that people have worked for over the years to making sailing fair and civilized will be out the window for the pleasure of the viewing masses.

    Sorry if I've gotten this wrong.

    Merrily
     
  7. archcat

    archcat New Member

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    Do you think they will amend the rules allow us to have clubs and whips as standard equipment now? :eek:

    Hey Full Contact sailing....that'll get'em to watch!!

    Cheers
    Mark
     
  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    My understanding Merrily was that the new format calls for on the water umpires to provide immediate rulings for incidents on the water in the Medal Race. Competitors can still protest each other too. I thought originally the intent was that there would be no protest hearings for the Medal Race but I see that the SIs for the Miami OCR allows for verbal protests from competitors to be decided by the protest committee after the Medal Race (Q2.3 and Q 5.4) though they seem to have speeded up the process by eliminating the need for written protests or written decisions.
     
  9. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, that is better than what I thought. The verbal protests must be a nod to an impatient audience, but not a blood thirsty one. The republic is saved.

    Merrily
     
  10. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    I had the chance to go watch the "medal round" at Miami... It was great fun to watch the whole thing through, just race after race as each class started and ran through its final race. Of course, what made it great fun to watch was the fact that it was blowing 20 knots and the highlight of the day was definitely Morgan Larsen's cartwheel in a 49'er when he snagged the anchor line of the pin end finish boat. Now that was cool, just like an Indy car spinning out!

    The Lasers and Radials both had great races, with lead changes and a tight pack until the final legs. The Radial race was won by Paige but she was not leading until, I think, the final weather mark. Similarly, Brendan Casey (AUS) won the Laser race but was certainly not leading until the final downwind mark.

    Still, one could argue that it would have been even more exciting if the entire fleets had been racing, rather than just the top ten boats. And, especially in those fleets with a large number of entries, there were several fleets in which the winner couldn't lose even with double points and no drop... they could finish last and still win (and some did). In the Radials I think Anna could do no worse than second, Paige could not win.

    It was interesting that there were still very good turnouts for the consolation finals so the fears of everyone fleeing the regatta early did not come true.

    This will certainly be seen at the Laser and Women's Radial Worlds in 2007 when they are held as part of the ISAF Combined Worlds, and probably in 2008 which is the final Olympic Qualifer. There is discussion about 2006 as well with a decision on that coming soon (I think).

    There are NO plans to introduce this format in any NA Region event. And there are NO plans to think about introducinig this format at any NA Region event.

    One other note, the finals were limited to 10 boats because of the decision ot do on the water umpiring. In Miami they ran three umpire boats per fleet. In the Lasers there was an incident at the leeward mark, a boat tacked to close and was protested by the competitor he fouled. The judges made and immediate call and flagged the offender. He only need to do one turn but, in the breeze, he ended up capsizing and lost a lot.

    Anyway, the umpires make the calls on the water. After the race the competitors have a 2 minute window, after the last boat finishes, to file "redress". After that it is over. It seemed to work out fine on the water but, again, this is with 10 boats.

    The competitors I spoke to seemed to like the system for this type of event. They liked the small fleet, short race shootout type of thing. And the fact that going into the last day you could be no worse than 10th. However, I would say that the majority don't want to see it in the Laser Worlds. Which is interesting.

    So, in summary, for the Olympics (especially if it is windy) this may be something that will really help jazz up the event. It will probably work well there too since in the smaller Olympic fleets it will be hard for any single boat to get enough point advantage to have it wrapped up before the last race.

    Tracy
     
  11. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    Guess what corks probably gonna have this new system
     
  12. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    CORK is the Canadian equivalent of Miami. I'd be surprised if they didn't go that way. All the OCR regattas in the world are following this format. But... those are technically not Laser Class regattas and we can suggest but don't control their formats.

    In any case, this system needs to be used before the Olympics and the OCR regattas are the right place to test it.
     
  13. rock steady

    rock steady New Member

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    If I get to see my country's competitor sail in the final race live on TV - because they are a strong medal chance - I will LOVE this new scoring system.
     
  14. Sarah B

    Sarah B New Member

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    The only thing that puzzles me is those fleets where the winner had a massive lead e.g. Yngling - the winner could finish last in the final race, yet still win gold. That isn't so clear to non-sailing bods. A one discard series is quite clear imho.
     
  15. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Thanks Tracy for your insightful 'on the water' report of the new format.

    To get an idea of the new system in action, take a look at the video from the Miami OCR (www.t2p.tv). Click on US Sailing Rolex Miami OCR 2006, click on "Friday", log in (free unless you want broadband access), continue and click again on "Friday". The download may take a while. The Lasers are first; other classes after that, and there was good wind.

    Hint: Paige Railey is 183275, Anna Tunicliffe is 184454, Andrew Campbell is 170817 and Brad Funk 184519. Tucker Thompson is the voice.
    All in all, it's pretty neat for Laserite insiders, but as mentioned before, I don't know if this will catch on with the public at large...
     
  16. sailor327

    sailor327 New Member

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    is there anywhere we can see a video of the 49er.
     
  17. rock steady

    rock steady New Member

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    Yeah I agree. The last race is just worth double points of preceeding races, so it's not really a "medal race" for the podium finish. It will however hopefully capture the imagination of TV presenters and non-sailing public if the their country man/woman is line for Gold.
     
  18. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    The main issue amongst the competitors in Miami is that it cut the 5 day regatta short. Normally there would be 5 full days of racing with at least two full fleet races on Friday. Instead there was 4 full days of racing and one 20-30 minute race on Friday for 10 boats plus a 20-30 minute consolation race for the rest. This basically eliminates 20% of the racing in the regatta and could impact future attendance. It also sucks for the 11th place boat that has no chance in breaking into the top 10 on Friday. I think if they are going to use this format in general regattas (which is everything but the Olympics) they should schedule the "medal race" as an extra day (Saturday for instance) with no consolation racing just the top 10 going out Saturday. That way the other 100+ people that paid for 5 days of racing get it....
     
  19. fishingmickey

    fishingmickey Member

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    Howdy all,
    I'm in complete agreement with The Boat House, when ya shell out the serious dinero for a full week long regatta you want to sail all the races. One of Fred's sayings is "races are hard to come by". Tha saying has stuck in my head. I love to race and sail my Laser, I just wish there were more races scheduled at the regatta's.
    Fishingmickey
    150087/181157
     
  20. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    I totaly agree that the more races the better and am too a bit upset about the lack of races at most reggattas
     

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