New Laser daggerboard brake

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by jeffers, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. rft

    rft New Member

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    I have a 195000, 2009 boat and the brake barely works with the existing holes. I guess that quality control is a fairly hit or miss affair.
     
  2. Sailorchick

    Sailorchick Member

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    Well spoke to the laser reps at the show about the brake and they claimed to be unaware of any problems. There advice was to contact them if having problems so they can advise (noticed Jeffers already has). Doing this will at least also make them aware of the problem and highlight if it is just the old boats or new boats too.

    I haven't bought my brake yet but will be interested to see if it fits - my boat is a 196xxx so according to them I should have no problems but we'll see. My husbands is an Aussie hull so will be interesting to test on that one too.
     
  3. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Let us know how you get on SC. I am going to earhole one of the Laser reps at the Active Laser launch at the en of Feb and see what they say.....
     
  4. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    How he gets on will be interesting. PSA are not going to import the new fitting into Australia, New Zealand or our region, so it's unlikely many people will fit them onto Australian built hulls.
     
  5. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    That has got to be the most ridicullous thing I have ever heard.. (unless LP know something we don't).

    Alomst as ridiculous as Ozonlynium foils :D
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Various laser sailors associated with the factory trialled the fitting and thought that it didn't work or was of marginal value. So they opted not to import the fitting. The GM and Technical Manager are both regular laser sailors, but they also work closely with a few of the top sailors and the former class technical officer trialling prototypes for the ILCA.
     
  7. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    I never had any issue with old brake and after what people are saying, I'm glad I didn't buy the new one.
     
  8. Clive Humphris

    Clive Humphris ILCA Technical

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    Laser Performance inform us that they are aware of a very low incidence of the holes being too far aft on older boats. Their advice is to move the pad forward and re drill. The old holes would of course need to be sealed.
     
  9. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Hi Clive,

    That is what they told me. However some of the boats I know if with issues are late 180,000 and 190,000 + boats. Hardly old by any means!

    From what I have been told the brake was tested (certainly in the UK) by the team GBR squad, my thinking is that they all had brand new boats with the new brakes fitted at the factory hence the holes being in the right place. Either that or they moved the hole positions once they knew the design of the new brake so all new boats have them in the correct place.

    I might take my brake to the dinghy show in March and offer it up against the show boat (if it does not have one fitted) and see how it looks.

    Cheers,

    Paul
     
  10. Webmuppet

    Webmuppet New Member

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    OK, so I apologise in advance if this is a really really stupid question, but here goes:

    How do I know if the new fitting is in the right place ? I'm guessing that if I put a pencil mark in line with the bottom of the vee on the old brake and try to line it up with the vee on the new brake ?.........is it really as simple as that or am I missing something ? Just thought that I ought to ask just in case I've misunderstood, I'm assuming from previous posts that some of the holes from the old brake system just don't allow sufficient adjustment for the new brake fitting to do its job,

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  11. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Hi Nigel,

    What I am going to do with mine is sit to board in the boat then press it up against the front of the casing.

    Then offer the new brake up ensuring that the board is making contact down the full length of the fricttion area.

    Once I am happy with that I will mark the holes about 1/3rd of the way from the top (so it can be pulled back if required when used in anger) and carfully drill them.

    I am not planning to do it for a while though as it is too cold for the reapir to the old holes to go off.... roll on the spring!

    Cheers,

    Paul
     
  12. sailingmania

    sailingmania New Member

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    my boat is sat in the back garden and i have decided to fit the new centreboard brake, i placed my daggerboatd in the slot and offered the brake up to it, i then markedc the holes and drilled one! i then realised that where i was drilling theres was no wood underneath!
    so now i ahev the old holes for the original centreboard brake plus one new hole which goes into some sort of filler or something, any ideas? any advice? is there a correct location for the brake? any one have any measure ments for the location of the wood under the fibreglass? all comments appreciated! (even the rude ones!) lol

    I'VE BUGGERED MY BOAT UP! SO YOU DONT HAVE TO!
     
  13. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    I tried looking in the measurement diagram to see if there is a specified location for the brake. The measurement diagram doesn't give measurements for where the brake goes but the inset diagram makes it look like it is quite a bit further forward than my old one was. Of course it may not be to scale so it's unclear.

    I measured my boat (179000 series) and found that the screws of the old brake were about 430mm from the forward part of the centerboard case. By holding my board in the case and pressing the new brake up against it so it held the board, it looks like the brake needs to go pretty far forward - I measured it as another 10mm forward.

    So I drilled the new holes 10mm forward of the old and patched the old ones. Since the boat's in my driveway I'm not sure if I did it right yet, I'm a little paranoid I overcompensated and went too far forward.

    I'm not too fussed about the effort required - if I got it right it's just a one time thing. The uncertainty is the biggest problem. My advice to Laser Performance would be to include a measurement of where the brake screws should ideally be located so people have a better reference point.

    When I get a chance I'll measure my other boat (160000 series) and see where the brake is mounted there too.

    What just occurred to me is that maybe trying to set the brake on the trailer is going to be a lot different than how the board sits when sailing so maybe I should have tried it mounted on the original holes first before messing around with the drill. . .
     
  14. Webmuppet

    Webmuppet New Member

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    Well, after all the concern about the new brake and if it might fit in the existing holes, I bravely ventured off to the boat park with my tool-box expecting the worst. To my complete surprise the holes seem to be in just the right place ! The new fitting seems to sit slightly further forward than the old fitting, this is probably a reflection on how badly adjusted my old brake was (rather than any real change of position). The one thing I did notice was that the slots for the screws were a little tight and they might benefit from being a fraction wider - nothing that couldn't be sorted out with a small file

    Cheers,

    Nigel

    [​IMG]
     
  15. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Your hull is pretty new isn't it Webmuppet? Can you measure how far the screw holes are from the front edge of the cockpit. I am intending to measure mine and would like the measurement from a boat that it has just bolted straight on to with no issues.

    How much adjustment do you have left on it?
     
  16. sailingmania

    sailingmania New Member

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    also webmuppet have you been out sailing and tested the breake to see if the exact location is correct for friction to be on the daggerboard? if not could you give us some feed back on positioning of the brake after a test sail? it will be muchly appreciated! thanks!
     
  17. Webmuppet

    Webmuppet New Member

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    I'm hoping to sail at the weekend but forecast is looking pretty dire for my part of the world (the wind blowing dogs off their chains, very cold with snow showers ?:eek:) - we'll have to see how it pans out. I'll also try to take a better quality photo once I've tested the position of the brake, but this time with a couple of measuring devices in the photo to show the position relative to some datum points.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  18. Clive Humphris

    Clive Humphris ILCA Technical

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    Hi Sailingmania

    The screws for the brake do not screw in to a wooden plate or a tapping plate. The combined thickness of the deck moulding, bonding paste and the flange for the centreboard case moulding provide an adequate thread engagement for the screws. Drill a tapping size right through both mouldings, apply sealant to the holes and screws and apply a sensible torque to the screws.

    Position the brake so that it contacts the rear of the centreboard. I would recommend drilling at the centre of the hole slot so there is some adjustment possible in both directions to allow for wear or for slight variations in the chord of different centreboards you may fit in future.

    Clive
     
  19. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    Ok, I got down to my other boat today (161000 series) and measured the distance from the front of the centerboard case to the brake screws and found them identical to my other boat (179000 series) -- 430 mm.

    So I installed the new brake in the original screw holes and went out for a sail. It seemed to work fine -- better than the old W. It was light air (6-8 knots max and flat seas). It seems that the brake creates enough friction when the board is under load and doesn't seem to need to have complete contact through the notch. Also wondering if it was the bungee doing the job I unhooked it and sailed for a bit without it. The brake still worked but not quite as well. I had about another 3/16 to 1/8" of an inch adjustment left to tighten it up.

    Now I didn't get a chance to try it in slop at low speed (like right before a start) which is when I really have had trouble in the past but I think it looks promising. It seems likely now that moving the holes on my other boat may have been premature.

    So based on this one test case, lessons learned:
    1. Don't listen to stuff on the internet without trying it out myself first! Just becuase a few guys have trouble with something doesn't mean it's widespred. Trust but verify!

    2. Stuff works differently underway than on the trailer. Duh!

    3. Have some faith that the builders and designers have at least some idea what they're doing. ;-)
     
  20. Webmuppet

    Webmuppet New Member

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    Hi Folks,

    Well I've done some measuring, I taped a wooden strip to the front bulkhead and measured from that - I reckon the screw holes are exactly 40mm from that (see the photo below if that doesn't make sense)

    [​IMG]

    One thing that intrigues me is that the the white part of the brake is vertical, thus the daggerboard itself is only touching the bottom edge of the new fitting. It seems to work very well, but surely if you wanted to increase the surface area, wouldn't you angle the bearing surface match the angle of the board ?

    Cheers,

    Nigel

    P.S. It'll be very interesting to see if there's much variation in the above measurement from boat to boat !
     

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