More Info for the 2009 Masters Worlds

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by johnde, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. johnde

    johnde New Member

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    FYI everyone should be checking on the following THREE websites for information

    ILCA event mini site.http://events.laserinternational.org/en/events/overview/100z38

    NA Region website,

    AND

    St Mary's Sailing Club Organising Committee Website

    Apparently the Local committee is trying to block book hotels so that sailors can stay together. The link from the ILCA minisite to the Venue web site is not working so there is no way you would find out this information. Its a pity someone is not coordinating things but there you go - business as usual!

    NA Masters committee, where are you?:(
     
  2. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    The link to the host site which is on the Master's site at the ILCA website (ok, my tongue is tied) works for me?
     
  3. johnde

    johnde New Member

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    No, not for me but I'm using Explorer 8 beta. I can get there via the ILCA site if I go via the FAQ page, the link to 2009laserworlds.org works then.

    Once you are there go to Accomodation/Masters for the info.
     
  4. ncusdan

    ncusdan New Member

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    The link worked for me. I am using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.
     
  5. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Hey, how did I go from being the 63rd application to 91st?

    Is this the ranking systems coming into play?
     
  6. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    The Canadian and US lists were merged into "North America" so I bet if you count the number of Canadians above you (look at the ISAF ids) then I bet it will make up the difference.
     
  7. laserz

    laserz New Member

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    worked 4 me aswell, dunno wat browser u guys r using, i am using firefox 3 beta
     
  8. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    That's an issue with living in the US. We are always "under" those dang Canadians!
     
  9. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    The Canadians are my heroes this week, under, over, around, or above. Some electrical workers from Hydro One of Ontario fixed our outage after a week with no power after Ike. So they ain't danged, they are marvelous!
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    North American sailors have applied for 181 spots. We are allocated 35.

    There is a suggestion above that North American sailors will be able to secure spots left by countries who do not ask for as many positions as those countries are alloted.

    Most countries have already asked for more spaces than their allotment.

    Some remaining countries might not fill their quotas. As of this morning, there are 68 available country allocation positions not yet spoken for.

    Other countries like UK, "North America," and Australia already have many more applications than allocations.

    I realize the selection process is still in its early stages but even if North America were to selfishly assign all the remaining un-spoken for slots to itself, there are currently over seventy NA applications, some from previous world champions, for whom if all 68 remaining invitations were extended, the hosts would need to expand their maximum number of invitations.

    Are there emergency discussions happening and alternative plans being made?

    It is still almost a year until the event will happen and it is becoming quite obvious the currently planned qualification system may simply send those who signed up first rather than our champions. Is it time to "tack early on the persistent shift," minimize the impact of getting it wrong the first time, and invent a sensible qualification system?

    Sure we already said one thing. Certainly some people would be disappointed that their early expectations can not be met.

    Certainly no one wants a qualification system that leaves our recent world champions, national champions, North American Champions and best available other competitors sitting out.

    On the other hand, if the new qualification system is developed and announced in the very near future, and if that system is a fair system that allows for plenty of advance trip planning for both qualifying and eventual competition in the main event, I believe the best interests of Laser sailing in North America can best be met.
    We need to take action now and create a system, one that meets the needs of the actual applications we have actually received. We must accomplish that task within the next few weeks.

    The NA Class Association should begin that task by immediatly contacting those who have already applied and telling them, " We have over 180 applicants for only 35 openings. Our original planning was made with no sense that such a large number of sailors would be interested in attending the event. We are abandoning the first come first served allocation system and we will be instituting a qualification system that will allow our best sailors, among those who have expressed interest, to compete in this championship. Further information will be forthcoming."

    There is no embarassment in admitting lack of foresight. The only tragedy would be that which comes from a failure to pay attention to what is happening, adjust, present a solution, and lead the implementation of the new process..


    Input:
    I suggest the qualifications must be settled by early June so travel plans can be made. I suggest we use past recent masters championships, the 2009 North American Masters Champpionships, and resumes based upon performance in ANY regattas held between now and June 1. We can certainly get a good idea about who is performing well by looking at results from the Florida Master series, Midwinters West, The Easter Laser regatta, Midwinters east, The Cedar Point Frostbite series, and any other local regatta held before June.

    Finally, I propose we let interested District Secretaries form a committee and make their best decision. They may leave some borderline competitors out and disappoint some sailors, but a decision by thinking concerned humans beats a selection process that merely uses first come first served.

    No matter what we do, we must realize that Laser racing is about wind, water, sailboats, and friendly competition. Success in a Laser World Championship must certainly not be defined by being able to find a few minutes on day one of a two month advertised entry period to sit at a computer connected to the internet and fiddle with a keyboard.
     
  11. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Wow! Nobody gives a rats patootie about this issue except me.....


    I suppose resolution will come when the ILCA and the Canadian hosts decide how many to take off the waiting lists from North America and whether to allow anybody from the waiting lists in other countries as well.

    My life education continues to surprise me.
    To think Ryan Minth and I used to scream at each other over the phone about how Laser sailing things ought to be run. Each of us was convinced we needed to do EXACTLY the right thing for all the passionate Laser sailors all over the region and that doing it the "other guy's obviously wrong way" would be somethng horrible for which we would certainly have to answer.
    If we had known that nobody but the two of us cared in the slightest we might still be friends today.

    Anyway.. back at the ranch...

    I have long since begun teh process related to hosting the 26th edition...25th Anniversary of the 1984 Regatta .....Easter Laser Regatta not very many weeks from now. If you would love to tune up for the masters worlds, see a bunch of old friends, make new ones, or just do some sailing earlier than your season starts. I would love to see you in Austin for the event.

    An event whose quality certainly matters to me.


    so I will refocus on that which I can influence.
     
  12. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    OK. I'll chime in. I think the spaces should go to those who have qualified for the event via their performance in the qualifying events. How fast you were able to type on your computer does not necessarly translate to how fast you can sail. In the situation we have now I think it would be unfair to leave those that are the best sailors on the side line because they were not sitting at their computers at 3:00 AM on the opening day like they were shopping the door buster sales on the day after Thanksgiving. Tie breakers go to the one that did register first.

    I think the left over spaces from countries that can not send enough sailors to fill their allotment should be evenly distributed among all other countries needing additional slots.

    Either way we do need to work with the total 350 spaces allowed. An argument at this point that we need to allow 500 boats is a wasted energy argument for 2009. Save that one for 2010.
     
  13. knot_moving

    knot_moving Member

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    So its supposed to be 59deg F & I'm sailing tomorrow in our first "frostbite" well its cold for us :)

    mike
     
  14. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    So the rankings are done and I'm WAAAAYYY down at the bottom, exactly where I should be. The NOR says entry opens for "initial allocated places" on Dec. 4 and closes on Jan. 16. It then says that entry opens for "extra places" on Jan. 23.

    I take this to mean the first 35 slots allocated for NA sailors will be filled during the Dec. 4-Jan. 16, then mere mortals should expect an e-mail no sooner than Jan. 23 if a slot is available?
     
  15. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    The whole group is littered with "mere mortals" as it was a first come first serve registration, (at least that is how I'm seeing it now). If they do actually make the entries by "qualification rank", i.e. where you finished in the qualification events and how many qualifying events did you sail in and so on... then it will turn the current list upside down and us "mortals" will slide to the bottom and the "cream" as they say will rise to the top.
     
  16. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    So of the 200+ people from North America who applied to enter were ranked. The top 35 on the list are guaranteed the allocated spots. After that, it's who registered first. So if you ranked #36 but registered the day after the guy ranked #200, it's the guy ranked #200 who gets priority.

    Is my assessment correct?
     
  17. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    As I understand it you are correct.
     
  18. dredies

    dredies Member

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    Hmmmm... time to stir the pot on this topic again it seems. According to the 2009 World Championship Qualification System that was published by Sherri Campbell on March 18th:
    "1) To be eligible you must have: a) Competed in a Laser World Championship (Master, Senior or Radial) in the past 5 years, or
    b) Competed in a major North American Master's event (North Americans, US or Canadian Nationals, MMWE, etc.) AND finished in the top 75% of your fleet.
    2) If, after satisfying the above, there are more applicants than spots available then entries will be taken in order of registration.
    NOTE: You must notify the ILCA-NA of your qualification under 1)(a) or 1)(b) in order to be ranked before those who fall into category 2) above. "

    I interpreted this as being two tiers: those that qualified, followed by those that didn't. The way the ranking have been done though, there are three tiers: all sailors that qualify by 1(a) are ranked before those that qualify by 1(b), regardless of their application date. This is somewhat discouraging for anyone new to Masters sailing.

    I am very curious to see how many berths North America actually gets in that the event has been over-subscribed by over 100 boats.
     
  19. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Spot on. Being the "Worlds" with limited berths I think they should take it a step further and rank forms by the most "qualified" skippers first. So the folks that won in previous worlds or the MMWE or NA's should be near the top and then trickle down from there. If you are going to have a qualification system might as well make it count.

    But hey don't worry! ANYONE can come to the Masters NA's in Wrightsville Beach in May! They are not so picky! Even better, it's also great open atlantic ocean sailing and I'll bet it'll be warmer.......

    That reminds me. I need to go bump that topic..
     
  20. LaserFleet10

    LaserFleet10 Ted Morgan

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