Minifish II - Looking for rigging advice

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by James A., Mar 15, 2017.

  1. James A.

    James A. New Member

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    Towards the end of last summer I stumbled upon a Minifish II for sale and it is in good shape for the most part but I am missing some of the rigging. I don't have the boom vang or the fiddle block for the top main. I would like to get some advice on what I would really need, so I don't overbuy or get something not sufficient and have issues.

    Would a simple used 3:1 for 1/4 line off ebay (Holt-Allen/wedge) be ok for the boom vang? Any advice on what size fiddle block for the sail I should pick up? I have the lower block still attached but not the upper or should I replace both. Also I need to replace all the lines of course but they one that really throws me is the halyard it has a end that is a steal cable whipped to it. Can I just replace that with a 1/4 line I think the original was a 1/8" line.

    I live on a small lake in the Seattle area and this will be to dink around the lake so I won't see any big swells or winds and can just swim home if need be ;)

    Thanks any advice would be welcome I don't have a clue what Im doing but plan to have fun.

    -James
     
  2. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    There was no vang. Doesn't need it. Don't bother.

    No block at the top of the vertical mast, just pass the halyard through the hole in the plastic cap.

    Halyard is tied to the upper boom appx 1/3 from front to rear of the tube. (I can go out and measure mine later, but you should have some indication where its been tied)
    Then the halyard goes through the cap on the top of mast.
    Lay the sail on the hull, usually with the booms to the right of the mast step, lining up the gooseneck so when you slide the mast in, it goes through the gooseneck. You can easily rig the sail on the other side just by loosening the gooseneck on the lower boom and twisting it to the other side, then tightening. Works fine.
    Begin pulling the halyard to raise sail while lifting the lower boom to aid the gooseneck sliding up the mast.
    Tie off to the cleat on the deck.
    Loop excess halyard between lower boom and mast, around the gooseneck and back to the cleat. Tie that off to hold the gooseneck down.

    The cleat is a bit small for the task... and the line (rope) may want to pop off if you aren't careful, so I put a couple of extra half hitches binding the lines together and helping keep it from coming off.

    You can replace the halyard with as light as 1/4 inch parachute cord and it will work...
    Your hands will not be happy working with the thin line. I replaced with 1/2 inch Just so it doesn't bite into my hands.

    Minifish uses the same lines as the Sunfish. Just a little shorter originally (and "too long" isn't a problem using the Sunfish lengths. Too short will be bad.)
    Sunfish Lines
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  3. Roller

    Roller Member

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    But the Minifish II has a cat rig, not the lateen of the Minifish.... The Minifish II doesn't have a superpowerful rig (~60 ft2, but sporty for the small, light hull), so I would think a simple outhaul, 3:1 vang, etc etc would be fine for this boat. You could look at something like Laser Performance's Bug (http://tinyurl.com/h37dhg6) to get rigging ideas. You're lucky to have found this boat--I envy you!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  4. James A.

    James A. New Member

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    Thank you guys, I appreciate it, @afhhuber, sounds like your describing more a sunfish type rig. But from what I found online.. not much on the Minifish II it's more like a super sunfish rigging, I just don't know enough to guess at what sizes I'll need or what would work well. Thanks you @Roller I think I'll pick up an inexpensive 3:1 for the boom vang then and maybe I'll just try a simple fiddle block for the top of the main. I do need to figure something out for the halyard tie down that 1/8 line that it came with is all rotted away but the fact the end had the wire cord on it makes me nervous to just use regular cord but I bet I could put some 1/4 on there. I'll be sailing in a light breeze, I just don't want to loose my mast ;)
     
  5. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Yes, fhhuber is talking about the wrong boat.
    Yes. And attach the cleat block to the mast with a swivel shackle so it's much easier to adjust.
    You mean the boom block for the sheet? Something like this should work: HARKEN 40mm Carbo AirĀ® Fiddle Block | West Marine
    That is, the larger shave about 40 mm in diameter. Non-ball bearing options are somewhat cheaper, of course.
    This all depends on what kind of cleating system you have (I can't find out at the moment what the standard system for a Minifish II is like). How long is the wire part? Does it cleat on a lock or a hook, where is the cleat located, does the rope/wire joint have to run through a certain sized opening?
     
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  6. Roller

    Roller Member

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    Another boat design to look at is the AMF Alcort/Vanguard/LaserPerformance Zuma (12.9' long, hull weight 130 lbs, sail area 65 ft2). You can download the "Zuma Parts Locator" here: http://tinyurl.com/zwlkve7
    This PDF has good views of Zuma hardware, plus recommendations for line sizes, etc. All the blocks for this boat are labeled with LaserPerformance's part numbers. You can google the block part number (like "Zuma 90673 block") and get an idea of the block size, etc used for this boat--which might help you decide what would be a good choice for your Minifish II.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  7. James A.

    James A. New Member

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    Thank you @LaLi that's the info and direction I was looking for.
    I went and dug it back out of the sail bag and I thought it had the wire whipped to the line but it turns out it was just loop so I can reuse the wire portion and just replace the line.
    [​IMG]

    There is only one small cleat on the deck where I imagine this should hold the mast to the boat. There is a spot behind the mast where something had pulled out or was removed which I don't know anything about, my guess would be maybe a fair-lead type fitting.
    [​IMG]

    Thanks
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Roller

    Roller Member

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    Wire kit for an outhaul? (as on a Force 5). Is there an outhaul block (or maybe just a turning cap) at the end of the boom? outhaul.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  9. Roller

    Roller Member

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    Post just this summer from sailcraftri (good source of Sunfish parts) with excellent pics of a Sunfish re-rigged as a Super Sunfish. I imagine the Minifish II was similarly rigged. I think the boom & gooseneck on this boat is from a Force 5.
    Super Sunfish Sailboat | SailingForums.com
     
  10. Webfoot1

    Webfoot1 Active Member

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    The Minifish II came with a Cunningham. The boat was produced with the intent
    of starting a racing class which, alas, never happened.
     
  11. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    The wire looks like it's supposed to cleat near the top of the mast, so that the sleeve at the rope end of it takes the load against a lock that may look like this:
    [​IMG]
    There may even be something built into the masthead fitting with the same function. The horn cleat on the deck would be only to hold the slack rope tail in place. The quality of the rope wouldn't really matter then as it's not load-bearing. But if the deck cleat is all there is, then a 4 or 5 mm Dyneema core rope (no wire!) would be appropriate for the job.

    The mystery hole in the deck likely has nothing to do with the halyard.

    Generally speaking, a halyard doesn't make much sense with a zipperless sleeve-luff sail. When rigging, you have to thread the mast just like on a Laser anyway, and the halyard only gives you the option of taking the sail down temporarily. It's not very practical, and it's not good for the sail. The Laser M rig had a halyard like this, as well as the Laser Radial originally, but it was discarded after a few years as useless. If I were you, I'd consider simply tying a shackle or a snap hook with a very short piece of rope to the masthead sheave.

    By the way, you already seem to have a fiddle block, on the deck. Switch that to the boom, get a 40(ish) mm single becket block and attach it to where the fiddle block is now.
     
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  12. James A.

    James A. New Member

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    Thank you all so much for the input it's very much appreciated.

    I have ordered a like new used harken 40mm carbo block with becket and I found a used harken 40mm carbo block boom vang which has the 40mm fiddle block with swivel and cam cleat and 40mm single with a becket. So I am still trying to figure out the halyard setup and I went and snapped a couple more pictures. I see there is an opening/hole in the top of the mast but I didn't see a spot on the lower where a line would come out. Does anyone know if the halyard should run through the mast or just on the outside and loop around the sheave? It sure looks like something was attached to the top of the mast at some point

    @LaLi I don't believe think this is the type of bracket you were referring to, I think that fitting maybe be to clip to the head of the sail, that pin has a key on the end to fit and lock to the other side do you think that little metal cable piece of line was just for the line keeper here against the mast and go around sheath. If that is the case I think I will just go with line of dyneema and secure it to the horn cleat. So would this be the only line that would hold my multi section mast to the boat in the event I capsize or am I missing somthing?


    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    So onto another area at the end of boom it appears I am missing a sheath that would have gone on the end of the boom for the outhaul line. Excuse my big thumb I did that since I didn't have a ruler with me to maybe find a cheek block. I didn't try real hard but I was wondering if it's better to use a couple of rivets to replace this block or should I work on the cap and use washers and lock nuts to secure it or ???

    [​IMG]
     
  13. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    That's a bit luxurious, but will certainly do the job. Besides the swivel, the good thing is that you can adjust the cleating angle right. (It's better that the cleat uncleats towards the boom.)
    I don't see any of them :( Even the deck picture in your earlier post has disappeared, although the halyard wire picture is still there. I see they are all in Google but I can't access them there, either.

    But I hope you (and everyone else) sees this:
    [​IMG]

    Yes, that's a Minifish II... I think I see the halyard is external, and the short wire part of it at the head of the sail. But the point is that this shows what the sail looks like when lowered, and that is, pretty bad. The luff and the sleeve certainly don't like being bunched up against the boom like that, and as I already said, the really bad thing about this is that you still can't take the sail off without taking the mast down. This is why the whole halyard is questionable, and you'd probably be better off with a simple, short tie line (+ possible shackle or such) at the masthead. As security goes, you could always tie a short security line (it can even be elastic) between the horn cleat on the deck and the vang tang on the mast, or the cleat and the gooseneck fitting.
     
  14. Webfoot1

    Webfoot1 Active Member

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    Try this video.



    Knowing it has a Outhaul, Cunningham and Vang should be enough info to rig it
    the way you like unless you're going for a exact factory setup. You can see why this
    boat was not popular, it was made for a racing class that never happened and was
    too complicated for the casual sailor. An option might be to ditch as much of the
    rigging as possible and go for a much simpler cat rig like a Butterfly. As is it might
    make a nice boat to introduce someone to the extra complexities of racing and some
    of the rigging associated with it.
     
  15. James A.

    James A. New Member

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    I can see your picture fine. Im sure it's me and how I was adding pictures to my posts. Im not sure on the proper way to add photos: See if this gets you to an album: https://goo.gl/photos/dQbQFuNefRmHzPpH6 When I try and put a link like this into a post the images don't appear so I had cut and paste images out of google photo (ID-10-T error to be sure).

    I don't imagine I would be securing my sail like in your photo. To simplify it I was thinking of the line with a snap shackle on the end so it can't pull through and call it good and secure that down. Yeah I'm sure I got more block than I needed but it seemed so much nicer and wasn't really much more $$$. I love/hate ebay ;).

    James
     
  16. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Yes! And now that that the masthead is in clear view, it's also clear (I think) that the stainless thing riveted just below the halyard sheave is the halyard lock. The sheave leads the wire right through it, and the sleeve in the wire cleats against it when you pull the halyard a little aft of vertical. Pulling along the mast should release the halyard. Nice engineering in its own way, but as noted, fairly useless with that type of sail. Doesn't change my previous recommendations.

    The outhaul: yes, you need a new cheek block. You probably have to drill two new holes, because that very model likely doesn't exist anymore. I'd prefer screws (that bite into the aluminium, no nuts needed) over rivets. Whatever you're familiar working with.
     
  17. Roller

    Roller Member

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    Your rig certainly fits into the '70's Alcort/AMF family. Looks like you're missing some sort of side-saddle turning block (for the outhaul) at the end of the boom. Perhaps your hunk of wire connected to the sail's clew and ran through a small wire sheave in the side-saddle bracket (the thing you're holding), then attached to a line which ran along the boom to the mast. Sort of looks like this in LaLi's photo. I think the heavy shackle on your outhaul rod is just some incorrect later add on. Force5_boom.jpg minifish2.jpg
     
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  18. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    The pictures aren't mine but James's.

    The clew end of the 1975 Force 5: the rusted hook is likely a later addition. That shackle would work by itself, and it's actually a pretty cool custom fitting that has two shackles in one, and pulls the clew both down and back. Using wire in running rigging is very 1970ish - single-braid Dyneema hadn't been invented yet!

    James's shackle on the outhaul rod is absolutely correct (provided it slides alright). It pulls the clew down, while the outhaul pulls back. The boom end is fitted for a 2:1 outhaul, with the line running through the cheek block, then through the clew eye (or maybe an extra attached block) and deadended at the eye on the port side.
     
  19. Roller

    Roller Member

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    "The pictures aren't mine but James's."
    Sorry, I meant the full-body shot of the moored Mini II--I thought you (LaLi) posted it. (I can almost imagine I see an outhaul line running along the side of the boom on that boat.) I reposted James' pix of the clew end of his Mini II's boom to compare it to Alcort/AMF's typical hardware.
    The rusty snap hook that came on the boom of my '75 Force 5 is definately not original! (& not needed). Alcort/AMF did pretty good SS hooks & sliders for their outhauls (like the ones pictured), which is why I think the galvanised screw shackle on James' boat was a later, clunky replacement. outhaul-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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  20. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to throw in a mention that parachute cord aka paracord is not a good line to use for halyards! Parachute cord has quite a bit of stretch to it, and for halyard you want as close to no stretch as you can get - otherwise your halyard stretches and the rig ends up sagging towards the deck as you sail.

    BB
     

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