Mandatory Insurance at Worlds

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by oldfart, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. oldfart

    oldfart Member

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    I just received an email from ILCA that states the NOR for worlds requires insurance on a Laser! It states we can buy at worlds for only $200 CAD. That is a rip-off if I've ever seen one. I always thought it was my decision as to whether or not I had insurance or if I was willing to take the low risk of not having and possibly have to pay for damage I may cause out of my pocket. I don't recall doing this at any other major event I have ever attended.
    Why is this a requirement? Can all the attendees tell the organizing authority (ILCA and St Margaret's Sailing Club) that we want this requirement eliminated?
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    My take on the insurance thing is about proof of financial responsability.
    The fleet will have folks from all over the world and if somebody screws up and causes a ton of damage, it may be difficult or even impossible to collect from that person.

    The boats are cheap. A total destruction of a Laser would only cause a $7000 expense.

    On the other hand, it is not unimaginable for somebody to screw up and stuff his bow directly into the backbone of another competitor.

    Who stands up for the hospital bills?...or worse??

    Som somebody came up with a policy...


    Did anybody mention the numbers related to the $200 policy?? And...what is the underwriting company and how do we know it is a solid company?
     
  3. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I had always considered that the insurance requirement was more about injury or death (you may cause to others) and that the boat damage aspect was something bundled in. Certainly in UK any event will require 3rd party insurance cover (normally to several million £ sterling). And in the worst case disaster I doubt many could afford to pay what a court might award (given the levels of cover provided by insurance companies).

    Unsure quite how 3rd party liability insurance is done in the US. In France for example a lot of your 3rd party liability insurance is included with your house insurance so it is less of an issue for many sporting activities.

    Ian
     
  4. ncusdan

    ncusdan New Member

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    I am wondering if there is a Laser sailor among us with insurance expertise who would like to comment on this?
     
  5. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Has this been a requirement at previous Worlds, or is it new with this event?
     
  6. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    I can't add much to this discussion, but I have seen that at prestigious European regattas, proof of having something like 1 million (euro) liability coverage is required.
     
  7. foxy

    foxy Member

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    The OCR in Miami has required liability insurance for several years now and I've seen it as a requirement for other regattas at times. Is it just a coincidence that this started being a "suggested" requirement after US Sailing started offering insurance policies through one of their sponsors?

    If you own a home, you can probably get a rider for personal liability added for little or no cost. Take a copy of the policy with you as proof of 3rd party insurance. You can insure the boat through the US Sailing One Design Program. I used to insure our Star and our Snipe through them, but have not bothered with the Laser. We insure our power boat through Progressive and its pretty cheap. I have that insurance mainly for liability when we work on race committees.

    This subject was discussed at an advanced race management seminar I attended last year and there were some interesting observations. The general advise seemed to be that it was not a good idea for the race organizer to require insurance because:
    1) It is very difficult to verify that the policies are really valid when there are so many types of 3rd party insurance available. Especially so with sailors from many countries.
    2) If someone has the insurance, but you can't verify it, and bar them from racing you make yourself liable for civil action.
    3) If you failed to verify everyone's policy or enforce the requirement then you were negligent in not conducting the event according to the NOR. If someone is injured and the responsible person does not in fact have vailid insurance, the injured party rightfully should be able to go after organizer. They may do that anyway, but you have now given them an extra opening.
     
  8. dredies

    dredies Member

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    The NOR says "The participating boat is required to hold adequate insurance and in particular to hold insurance against third party claims of at least $1,000,000 CAD". I've got a pretty generic home insurance policy and it includes $1,000,000 liability coverage plus coverage for watercraft that I am using. Check your policy, but chances are that you are already covered.
     
  9. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    I'd also check if your policy excludes watercraft being raced.

    It's standard for all regattas in Australia for the competitors to have 3rd party insurance. For the period of the regatta, I'm surprised a better deal could not be arranged as $CAN200 would be the equivalent to what I pay annually.
     
  10. Sailorchick

    Sailorchick Member

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    Its standard for all UK regattas to insist you have insurance. I think it should be a requirement and I expect everyone to be suitably insured that I race so in the event of any incidents it can all be sorted out quickly and easily.

    Its not expensive (about £70) and has saved me a fortune over the years replacing snapped masts, fixing holed boats etc.
     
  11. dredies

    dredies Member

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    Good point. Every policy may be different, but in my case it excludes watercraft "used in any race or speed test (except sailboats while racing)".

    Our club started requiring insurance about five years ago. Almost all of our members found that they were already covered.
     
  12. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    In the US, BoatUS has a pretty good low cost liability policy. I pay about a hundred bucks a year for a policy with a decent liability limit that includes coverage while sailboat racing -- not sure it's valid if I leave the US tho.
     
  13. Dr._Loser

    Dr._Loser From 3# World

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    I have a question.
    Every laserite must have a insurance on a Laser at HALIFAX MASTER WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP ?

    Thanks a lot.

    Alex
     
  14. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Does anybody know first-hand if a homeowner's umbrella policy would provide coverage for sailboat racing? I tried to insure just my boat a few years ago through USAA. They said they wouldn't cover it if it were used for racing.
     
  15. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    The NOR for the Master Worlds (download here) says (see section 22 on "Liability"):

     
  16. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Its probably best to talk to your insurance agent as they could tell you whether your policy will cover you in Halifax (ie outside the US).

    My insurance agent told me that, in fact, I am NOT covered (for liability) while racing on a chartered boat outside of the US, but I WOULD be covered if I were racing my own boat -or- if a chartered boat in an event in the US. Very confusing.

    He also told me that the US Sailing small boat insurance does cover you (liability and damage) if racing in Canada, the US or Mexico on your own boat or a chartered boat. If you do a lot of racing in North America that may make a lot more sense than buying the insurance offered at the event.

    To be sure, I am NOT an insurance agent and it is best to talk to your insurance agent to see what your particular situation is.
     
  17. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    I wound up going with Gowrie's US Sailing One Design program. The premium was $120 for collision on the boat, and $120 for $1,000,000 worth of liability. It's a much better value that what is being offered at the regatta.
     
  18. 8817

    8817 Member

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    I have a separate local policy through Aviva for 100 that covers me for 1m and the boat for damage on inland and coastal waters in the US and Canada.

    I posed the question of racing at the worlds on the Ocean to my broker and they confirmed that I am covered.

    Half price and includes coverage for the year rather than the week.

    Mike
     
  19. Sailorchick

    Sailorchick Member

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    Do you not get specialised insurance companies for marine craft in the US? In the UK there are several companies (Noble Marine, Newton Crum etc) that specialise in dinghy insurance. This means their policies include the things you need for racing as standard.
     
  20. oldfart

    oldfart Member

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    I contacted USAA, my homeowners insurance carrier, and was told that my liability did not cover me. Another sailor has gotten confirmation from USAA that he is covered. Not sure what is really true. Anyway, USAA referred me to Markel American Insurance Company and I got the coverage required for $101 for one year. If you are interested, call Julie at 1-866-866-936-1879, ext 3213.

    Can't remember ever seeing or hearing of an incident in a Laser event which did, or could have, resulted in a major insurance claim.

    What we need to do is make lawyers extinct!! Or at least very rare!::D
     

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