Looking for a Trapeze Harness

Discussion in '470 Discussion' started by Ryan@470, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    I’m looking for a harness for my recently purchased 470 (Jean Morin, 1974). I’ve never sailed on a wire before, so I’m not looking for a racing harness. (My boat probably isn’t class legal anymore either). The boat came with wire, but there’s no interface between the wire and the harness other than a crimped loop, as far as I can tell. There’s no hardware, blocks, handles, so hopefully I could get this in a kit of some sort. The wire seems to have a 180 degree key slot where it connects to the mast. (This seems to be standard on this boat as all standing rigging has a keyed slot somewhere on the mast).

    So basically I’m looking for a cheap harness (used (?)) that I can learn on. It also needs to be size adjustable for crew. I also need all of the trapeze equipment.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks
     
  2. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Well, basically all trapeze harnesses are "racing" harnesses. The new ones are all pretty well-built, very adjustable and/or come in several sizes. This one from my favorite shop from across your lake looks like a good deal (and even actually characterized as "entry level"): Magic Marine Smart Trapeze Harness
    I wouldn't buy a used harness unless I got to try it on first. They may be badly worn out (slipping buckles, for instance) or simply the wrong size or shape for you.
    The various kits seem to include the wire (usually for the 420). It would be best if you could use your old wires, but you'd probably have to shorten them not only because 1970s handles were very low, but today's handles are made of rope and use (even) shorter wires. In the 470, I liked the handle to be a bit closer to the gooseneck than the spinnaker pole ring when you pull the wire tight along the mast. You could tell the same guys what you want and they'd do it for you: Trapeze Assembly Laser 2 Complete one side
    If your boat was legal in 1974, it's most likely legal today. My impression is that very few features in the 470 (if any) have been banned without grandfathering the existing fleet. Is there something in particular that you suspect being illegal?
     
  3. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Thanks for the quick response,

    So basically the harness connects to the wire/rope through a hook? Is this a standard hook?

    ===

    "If your boat was legal in 1974, it's most likely legal today. My impression is that very few features in the 470 (if any) have been banned without grandfathering the existing fleet. Is there something in particular that you suspect being illegal?"

    I know that the 470 class is very strict. My boat has been through a few owners that painted, gel coated, and even changed part of the rigging setup.

    ===

    I have also heard of "entrapment" where sailors become dangerously tangled in sheets when the boat turtles, especially the trap wire. What kind of modifications/precautions should I consider? How much of a concern is this?

    Thanks

     
  4. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    At the end of the height adjustment system there is something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Which connects to what may look like this on the harness:
    [​IMG]
    The hooks aren't "standard" if you mean that you would use them for something else than trapezeing.
    You can get a quick-release hook (+ spares of course) which should be safer. It releases the hook itself from the plate (or bar) on the harness, in case you can't release the ring from the hook like you normally do.
    Through my years of trapeze sailing, I never got entrapped, but others have had close calls, and there have been a very small but non-zero number of drownings. My only (other) technical tip is to remove any non-disengagement feature (such as a rubber knob) from the hook & hook plate/bar: it's much, much more important to be able to unhook fast than stay hooked at all times.
    It's important to develop proper trapezing techniques even from the safety point of view. You need both training and strength - for example, you have to be able to hang from the handle with one arm, unhooked, for several seconds at a time.
    The 470 isn't that strict compared to, for example, the Laser. Refinishing the hull shouldn't make it illegal, and the control system rules haven't fundamentally become stricter over the years.
     
  5. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    I’ve never sailed with a spinnaker before either, I assume it’s a steep learning curve. I’ve also never sailed without a jib furler. As far as I know, when either the spinnaker or jib is not being flown they’re tucked away in some sort of bag/net or cubby towards the front of the boat, depending on the manufacturer. On my old Morin, the tanks run straight into a wall, flush with the splash guard. This leaves little space for a downed sail.

    How should I protect my sails when they are in the boat?
     

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  6. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Just do a Google picture search for "470 spinnaker bags" to see what your boat absolutely needs.

    The 470 jib is up at all times on the water.
     
  7. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Laser Performance Club 420 Wire, Trapeze

    Thanks for all the help!

    I tried to include a visual this time.

    This is what I’m considering. Cost wise, do you know of any (quality) kits that are still pretty cost effective?
     
  8. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    With 26 dollars, all you get is the actual wire - which you already have.

    I am in the middle of moving, and I should get a proper net connection again in a couple of days. I'll take a look at the market then.
     
  9. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    As LaLi already implied, don't be 'penny wise, pound foolish'.
    Your life may depend on a properly working trapeze, especially because you (and presumably your crew) are novices at this part of the game.
     
  10. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Thanks, never thought of it that way.

    Is there a reason that 470 official trapeze gear is hard to find, say, compared to 420s, Laser, Laser 2, (pretty much Performance Laser)? (That or I haven’t found anything yet).

    As LiLa mentioned above, I set out to buy a new kit from Vela Sailing. They are putting together a 470 kit without wire, ~$75 per side. (Again I’m not really familiar with sailing gear prices/performance sailboats, so that’s why I’m here).

    Thanks for the help!
     
  11. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Supply and demand. Also, this equipment is virtually identical from class to class, the main difference being the wire length.
    Sounds good. But as I already said, be prepared to shorten your wires.
     
  12. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Here are some pictures of what I mentioned above about a “key slot” (these pictures came from my boat). Have you ever seen something like this before? They make setup real easy though.
     

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  13. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Those are very, very normal t-terminals. It's what practically all 470 masts have had since the early 1980s.

    What make is that mast?
     
  14. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Wow, guess I need to research my boat more.

    Is “Elvstrom” a make? I am guessing most of information of the mast was on a sticker, which fell of revealing the masts original anodized surface.

    This may not be the original mast if they were on most 470s “since the early 1980s”
     

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  15. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Here’s a section from a pamphlet that came with the boat. Buyers had the option between being fitted with Elvstrom or Zee Spar masts. Mine apparently has an Elvstrom, accept the boat is definitely from 1974.
     

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  16. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Nice historical stuff. The name of the greatest sailor of all time, Paul Elvstrøm of Denmark, has been on a lot of different equipment over the past decades, mostly on the sails from the loft that he started in the 1950s. I believe the Elvström (Swedish spelling) spars widely used in the 470 in the mid-1970s were built in France; popularitywise, they gave way to the also French Z Spars, which in turn were surpassed by the English Proctor (now Seldén) and Super Spars.

    Unlike the other makes mentioned here, the Z Spars used slightly simpler "j" hooks for wire attachments. They had gone out of fashion by the 1984 Olympics, so that's why I said "all since the early 1980s". Your mast is very likely the original mast of your boat.
     
  17. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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  18. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    If a harness has adjustable thigh straps (like this one) or an adjustable crotch strap, then it should fit a fairly wide range of shapes and sizes. Choose the size based on the biggest of you.

    What are you getting from Murrays? The link doesn't show.

    Spinnaker bag attachment depends on what fittings the boat already has, and how the bag itself is built. For example, the picture doesn't show the closing flap system which can be of two different basic types. But all that's really for another thread, on the 470 forum (this one should probably be moved there, too).
     
  19. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Sorry about that Murrays link. It contained the entire trapeze assembly, including “can’t miss rings” and trapeze shock cord (no wire). >>> Second image is the assembly, rings and shock chord comes separate, but I included them in my order.

    About the spinnaker bags, appearently one of the previous owners removed all of the hardware to mount the bags, and glassed in the holes. I was planning on putting a plywood backer board behind the door, or possibly glassed-in-place nuts so the fiberglass round the doors doesn’t become exhausted. I will glass in wood too around the bags, so I can mount the hooks properly.
     

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  20. Ryan@470

    Ryan@470 New Member

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    Sorry this thread goes all over the map, but the 470 forum isn’t receiving any traffic at all. Is there a way to move a thread?
     

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