Leaders: Please Lead!

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Old Dude, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Old Dude

    Old Dude Member

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    This is not intended to be critical of leadership. In fact I support them and the path they have taken with respect the manufacturers dispute. I also understand that in these instances lawyers - who obviously would have to have been involved and consulted given the nature of all of this - will counsel leadership that the less said in public the better.

    But maybe the balance towards conservative limited communication has gone too far?

    Please give me a reason to pay my dues.

    Show me leadership is on top of this or at least explain what the current status is and what options and fall-backs exist should they be needed. The communications that we get suggest the sky may soon be falling - and that may well be a very real possibility I can agree - but if so, don't class members deserve a bit more communication about where things stand and what the options going forward might be?

    * The vote was taken and passed on to ISAF who did what - nothing? Can leadership please explain what ISAF's rationale is for doing nothing and what if any options the class has?

    * If this is held up by ISAF are there steps class members can take to put pressure on ISAF to act or at least explain themselves?

    * There have been public reports - by the manufacturers themselves - that both GS and LPE would set up their own version of a Laser class and there seems to maybe have been small steps taken by both in that general direction if what is out in the public is being understood correctly. Are people reading these steps correctly?

    * Finally, if the sky is starting to fall, what options exist for the class to proactively deal with it?

    Again, none of this is intended to be critical of leadership, or their actions to deal with the dispute.

    I simply point out that for a leader to lead, somebody has to pick up a flag, explain the what and why, and lead. Its hard to follow a vaccuum... people tend to float around bouncing off the walls when there in one. So end the communiction vaccuum.

    Perhaps we need to hear more about the what and why!

    Thanks,

    Old Dude
     
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  2. sprayblond

    sprayblond Member

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    And in the meantime the Laser championships have undergone a name change to
    MacLaren Laser 4.7 Youth World Championship 2012


    So now we have MacLaren Lasers and other Lasers, at least thats one interpretation.. I hope they are members of Laserperformance Union... what a mess.
     
  3. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    And the
    MacLaren Laser Standard Under 21 World Championship 2012


    "MacLaren Laser." Couldn't you just see it coming?

    It is sort of interesting that ILCA spells it MacLaren but that the baby buggy company consistently spells it Maclaren on their website. Oh well, that's to be expected too, I guess.
     
  4. sprayblond

    sprayblond Member

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    I think the reason behind is some over creative MBAs at Maclaren with totally wrong ideas about what is actually the brand here.

    The Laser brand does not matter at all. What matters is ILCA and the structure and system they provide in the form of measurements, events including charter boats and the resulting global playing field. Coca Cola or Maclaren baby for that matter cannot change from one name to another without destroying the brand and confusing customers. Lasers could. e.g. "ILCA 2012" could easily take over the whole market if the sailors got the same boat and the same infrastructure for support. I have seen this before where a multinational thought that they had the brand so they could fire the salesman. Turned out the salesman who knew all the customers was the brand. He tolled a similar product and took over the market within a year..

    THE VALUE LIES IN THE CLASS ORGANIZATION. NOT IN LP.
     
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  5. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    I do think there is some value to the Laser brand name, but I whole-heartedly agree that the class association is a much more valuable asset.

    Personally, I don't know how many Rubber Baby Buggy Bumpers they can sell by sponsoring a niche recreational activity.
     
  6. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    I agree that the class association is what gives the Laser boat a lot of its value. But look at it from LP's perspective. It would seem that the Laser Class's Fundamental Rule says that all the boats that LP sells in Europe are not legal Lasers any more as far as the class is concerned. And we haven't been able to change that rule (thanks to ISAF apparently.) So, from LP's perspective the current class must look like a huge liability, not an asset.

    So if they want to continue selling Lasers they really only have two choices. Either establish a new agreement with Bruce Kirby Inc. (and start paying royalties to BKI again) or start their own class association.

    Of course I could be completely wrong. Given what little information has leaked out about this whole mess, it would not be surprising.
     
  7. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    The class association relationship with the builders and the sailors was the strength of the brand. When the builders and the sailors and the association are all sensible enough to comprehend they are on the same team, everybody benefits. More boats sold means a better game. A better stronger association and more profitable company comes from the exact same set of behaviors.

    We ned a lot of eager sailors. We need a supplier of geat reliable toys. We need an association to gather information about potential activities and to spread that information in an organized fashion to as many potential sailors as possibler.



    The Laser building business is absolutely not the most profitable business a person could buy with a similar investment.

    The Laser sailboat is not the greatest sailing toy on the market.

    The association pays miniscule salaries or nothjing to those who make it operate.

    Laser, with respect to sailboat, at any level from any direction is absolutely not about the money.

    Only a fool would buy the laser sailboiat building rights with any other intention than to build sailboats for personal satisfaction while making some money.

    Fighting with the sailors and the associations is such absolute foolish ignorant behavior, I have difficulty believing anyone really could possibly control sufficient funds to own the building rights while squandering away those funds on stupid ignorant fighting.

    I wish to believe the fighting is not happening.

    if I find the builder actually IS fighting with the sailors I shall go find a different source of playtoys.

    and I will certainly quit contributing personal funds to the game which uses that builder's products.

    it is very very hard to build a market for a particular kind of one design sailboat. it is hard to build a game played nationally or world wide. HUndreds of classes and builders have proven it is quite easy to kill off an entire brand of sailing game.

    let's hope we are not being supplied with toys by fools who will kill off our game.

    I prefer to believe all this crap is learning curve related.
     
  8. Emilio Castelli

    Emilio Castelli Member

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    Yes it is.
    Agree with the rest.
    E
     
  9. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    Sorry Emilio, have to agree with Gouvernail on this one. There are a number of boats invented in the last 40 years that are more fun to sail than the Laser.

    But what the Laser has had going for it has been a class association and manufacturers working together to ensure that there is fair racing between 200,000 boats all over the world. Once the class and the builders stop working together that will evaporate and the Laser will become some minority interest class like the Force 5.
     
  10. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    The boat itself is a load of garbage, the only thing going for it is the number of other people sailing it and that in principle it is a one design class.
     
  11. Emilio Castelli

    Emilio Castelli Member

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    I guess it depends on one's definition of "the greatest sailing toy".
    For me the greatest sailing toy would be inexpensive, easy to rig and transport, durable, able to sail in basically any conditions and allowing me to get some exercise when I go sailing.
    The laser is all this (with the excepion of durability for sail and topmast, problems that can be fixed); then of course there is the main attraction which is being able to sail in good fleets with identical boats.
    But even w/o the class, I can't think of any boat I'd rather own. I have loads of fun going upwind, downwind and reaching in anything over 10 knots. If it's less than 10 knots I do something else.
    I have just re started sailing and have no idea of what else is on the marke though.
    So my question is: which single handed boat would you rather sail?
    E
     
  12. Tillerman

    Tillerman Member

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    If it were the same price as a Laser, and if there were as many of them around as there are Lasers, and if there were regattas every weekend in the summer around here like there are for Lasers, and if it had a Masters Worlds as awesome as the Laser Masters Worlds, and if there were a class association for it as strong as the Laser Class, and if as many good sailors sailed it as they do Lasers, I would probably sail an RS100.

    But it isn't and there aren't and there aren't and it doesn't and there isn't and they don't... so I won't.
     
  13. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    It all depends on how you define greatest. If you include the availability of a game, the laser is absolutely the greatest. In fact, there is currently nothing else on the market which has a significant and readily available one design experience game to play..
    If you just want to go out and blast around on a fun toy, there are many ways to soup up the Laser itself to make it a better toy...
    and... have you ever ridden on an A class cat??
     

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