Laser2 mainsail halyard

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by norgold, Jul 12, 2016.

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  1. norgold

    norgold Member

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    image.jpeg When the sail is raised I'm left with the wire as in the attached picture. How do I secure it? The only hardware on the mast seems to be in the wrong place and the wrong direction.
     

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  2. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    The halyard should run inside the mast, come out through the exit block, do a 180° and attach to the hook. It's the wire that's installed wrong, not the fittings.

    What do you have at the top of the mast? Isn't there a similar exit block up there?
     
  3. norgold

    norgold Member

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    Yes, there's a small block there. I've used it this way a few years' ago, knowing it was not right. It would be quite a job to remove the wire - I wouldn't like to do it. I can see drawing the wire loop through the block and coming back up to attach to the hook, but how would I attach the cord to the wire loop to be able to draw it through?
     
  4. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    More pictures please. Of the mast top, and how the halyard runs from there.
    How so? If it's external, what's the trouble?
    If with "removing" you mean threading it inside the mast (where it belongs), then yes, it is a little tricky, but not impossibly hard by any means. The two-part mast of the Laser 2 actually makes it easier.
    By splicing or sewing. I think the original Laser 2 halyard tails were three-strand ropes (like your vang) spliced to the wires. What does your jib halyard look like?
    Your current main halyard tail doesn't look very spliceable, so you'd probably have to sew it into a loop around the wire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  5. norgold

    norgold Member

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    Here's the pic of the top of the mast. Yes, it's inside the mast. Sewing into the wire sounds like beyond my capabilities.
    The jib
     

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  6. andyatos

    andyatos Active Member

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    That's exactly how my 470 was set up. A small diameter line that was spliced to the small loop on one end of the wire. This made up the total of the jib halyard.

    When not rigged, what exited the sheave at the bottom of the mast was the small diameter line section of the jib halyard. When rigging the boat you attached the wired end of the halyard to the head of the jib and raised the jib by pulling the end of the halyard with the line on it from the bottom of the mast.

    And right as the wire that ran through the leading edge of the jib became tight, the looped end of the wire section of the halyard would appear from the sheave at the bottom of the mast. Give a good tug upwards on the halyard and place that wire loop over a hook on a separate multi purchase device that allowed you to really tighten the wire running through the leading edge of the jib that was attached to the wire section of the halyard.

    And, voila... you now had, in effect, a nice, tight "forestay" supporting your mast. As Lali has pointed out, there's no way the current set up will work on your boat. You need a small diameter line spliced to the loop on the end of the wire in your photo. So that it can pass through the small opening at the bottom of the sheave in the photo.

    - Andy
     
  7. andyatos

    andyatos Active Member

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  8. norgold

    norgold Member

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    The jib halyard wire is not in the mast. See my other inquiry for jib.
     
  9. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    This is getting even more enigmatic.
    If the halyard goes into the mast at the top, where does it come out so you end up with picture 1?
    In picture 2, what is the wire behind the mast? It isn't the main halyard that somehow comes out again right after the block, is it?

    I have, and I would NOT recommend it! The author just doesn't know very well how a Laser 2 (or any other boat of its type) works. There is some pretty crappy advice there.
     
  10. andyatos

    andyatos Active Member

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    I think the best approach for us to help you figure out how to rig your boat is as Lali suggested; photos... lots of photos.

    Or better yet, video. Shoot footage from the top of the mast slowly down to the bottom, including all hardware, upload it to YouTube and post a link here.

    - Andy
     
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  11. norgold

    norgold Member

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    Yes. I saw it, read it over and over, printed it, read it again and again and again. The problem with instructions like this is it is written by an expert, for experienced sailers! There's not enough pictures and detailed instructions written in non-technical English so the non-experienced laser owner can understand it. I don't need the trapeze and spinnaker instructions; I do need more pictures and details on the outhaul setup. I know you're not responsible for this guide; I'm just venting at all the authors of guides, whether for rigging, for computers, printers, etc., that don't write for their intended audience. I guess that's why there's so many of "The Dummy" books sold.
     
  12. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Norgold, as I said in my previous post, the author of that guide comes across as a "dummy" himself, definitely not an expert. Don't take anything there too seriously.
     
  13. norgold

    norgold Member

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    Sorry, you can see how confused I am about all this...the mainsail halyard is OUTSIDE the mast. It only goes in and out of the small block at the bottom, and I guess should come up and go over that cleat. Except it's missing a few inches to do that.
     
  14. norgold

    norgold Member

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    If the right way is to have this halyard inside the mast, what's the procedure to do this?
     
  15. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    I would like to see more pictures!
    1. Of the mast top from the other (port) side, and from directly behind and from below,
    2. of the topmast/bottom section joint from a bird's-eye view, from behind and close-up, and
    3. with the top and bottom sections detached, of the top section bottom end from below and close-up.

    This to determine whether the halyard is supposed to enter the mast at the top of the bottom section (it's a possibility) or the whole mast. Then we can go on from there.

    (The problem is that this is an "old-style" rigged Laser 2 mast, with which I am not familiar.)
     
  16. Riv

    Riv Member

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    As Lali says this is an old boat, one where the diamonds are adjusted by screws in the mast foot rather than like on mine with bottle screws on the side of the mast.

    The fix for all this is to rig the halyard where it should have been, the sheeve on the top of the mast is a bit offset to allow the halyard to enter the top of the lower mast section. The two section are almost certainly corroded together so do not attempt to separate them.

    So get a piece of wire like a bicycle spoke, (cut off the bend) and tape a long thin length of string to it, remove the lower sheave by drilling out the rivets. then push the length of wire alttached to the string down the top of the lower mast section (remember to use the side the sheave is on), then stand the mast upright and the spoke will go down the mast and you can pull it out of the sheave hole with fine nose pliers. Use the string to pull the wire halyard through and assemble it all.

    Somewhere there is a lovely you tube clip of Aussies washing halyards down 18ft skiff masts with hose pipes....I've never been able to get that to work for me, maybe they have more water pressure in Oz!
     
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  17. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    I suspected something like that, which is why I wanted the photographic evidence. Thanks for confirming it!
     
  18. norgold

    norgold Member

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    Now that we've determined that the halyard rigging is all wrong, and since I'm not about to undo everything and attempt to install it in the mast until late fall, what can I do with the wire loop as shown in my first post to secure the mainsail?
    I'll start a new topic for my next question - the cunningham.
     
  19. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    The simplest option would be to take the halyard completely out and tie a short piece of rope to the mast top, and shackle the sail there. You'd have to tilt the boat over every time you hoist or lower the main, though.

    If you don't want to do that, you could tie a block to the mast foot to lead the halyard (externally) to the hook. You would have to adjust that tie line to get the right effective length for the wire. The risk with the external halyard is that the wire (which wants to take the straightest route) might do unexpected things to itself and the equipment along the way when the mast bends.

    But really, you wouldn't have to "undo everything" to get the halyard inside the mast. I believe that the bottom plug is held in place only by the diamond wires (Riv, do you know if this is so?), so you wouldn't necessarily even have to drill out/re-rivet anything. You'd just unscrew the diamonds and then do like Riv explained a few posts up, except you'd have access to the leader line without taking the bottom exit block out.

    (BTW, I'll post the link to the original manual here, too: Laser 2 owners manual 1982 | SailingForums.com)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
  20. Riv

    Riv Member

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    I've never seen a boat this old in the UK, my mast plug is rivetted in....

    However getting rivets out is really easy, just use a 10mm drill to remove the heads and then drill through with the size the rivets are, or punch the remains out.

    As a long time boat bimbler I have a pop rivet gun and a large selection of rivets, come in really handy!!

    BTW, you do not have to put stainless steel rivets in, aluminium will do fine for the sheave box and you will not have eletrolysis problems.
     

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