Laser vs. Barnett 1400 vs Chrysler Dagger 14

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by doumafam, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. doumafam

    doumafam New Member

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    I would dearly love to own a laser. However, it seems affordable used boats are sold very quickly. As an alternative, there are a couple of Barnett 1400 boats for sale near here. There is also a Chrysler Dagger 14 for sale.

    I am wondering about a comparison of these boats. I have done a lot of research and have not found out much info. WHile I suspect that I can get a lot of responses that say "The Laser is way better", it would be very helpful to me to get specific points where one boat is superior to the other. Concrete comparisons are what I'm looking for.

    If you are able to offer insight, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks
     
  2. legaleagle

    legaleagle New Member

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    I can see by the dinghy's that you have selected you after a very specific looking dinghy? But what you like is different to want you need?

    You have to remeber that a laser is a single handed dinghy. But you are looking at two other dinghy's that require 2 or 3 crew. (Ive only seen these type of dinghy's once and have not done any research, so correct me if Im wrong).

    It therefore makes it a little difficult to answer your question...apples and oranges if you will.

    I think you need to run a "needs analysis" first and decide what is important to you to enjoying sailing.

    You are right though, we will say "just buy a laser"!

    Good luck
     
  3. doumafam

    doumafam New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. While it is not the thurst of the intent of your remarks, would it be accurate to say the Dagger and Barnett would compare more readlity to a Laser II? If so, that is good news for me. If so, how do these comparisons run. One would be the size of the sails for sure. And on another note, a tangent really, I have come across some kind of rating system that uses DPN numbers. What is best: high or low?
     
  4. legaleagle

    legaleagle New Member

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    Ok, so its sounds like you want a 2 crew dinghy...right?

    From personal experience the Laser II is a wicked dinghy!
    The beauty of the II is that it can be sailed single handed in light/medium air (without the jib ofcourse, unless your psycho).

    My mate has one, so I hooked up to the trapeze in 25knt air...long story short...thrilling!

    As for D-PN numbers...
    Check out http://www2.ussailing.org/home.htm

    enjoy your sailing mate
     
  5. doumafam

    doumafam New Member

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    thanks for the link. It is helpful. My primary obsession is biking, and I assume there is some correspondence re stats and evaluations. They matter, but so too, does the skill, capacity, and weight of the rider/sailor. In my case, that's 275#. Hence the interest in the larger boat. I understand that 2 person may mean you need 2 people to handle it. But I also interpret it to mean 2 people who together weigh as much as I do
     
  6. John Gilmour

    John Gilmour Member

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    The Laser is not the perfect boat for all occasions. It's greatest strength is as a racing boat. If you want a boat for fooling around with, it' not the greatest. One problem is that you can't lower the sail without lowering the mast, which makes the Laser less than ideal if you want to sail off by yourself on a body of water where the winds might increase a lot. The Laser is not great in waves. If you want a boat for two, there are lots of alternatives out there, including the Laser 2, 420, FJ, Albacore, Jet-14, Many of those can be rigged for single-handed sailing, especially if you weight 275! Also think about where and how you will launch. A Laser is easy to launch off a beach and does not require a ramp. Two handed boats are usually heavier and require a ramp to get the boat off the trailer and into the water.
     
  7. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi.
    From your words I read you're not a beginner in sailing. If you are a beginner in sailing, I wouldn't advice to a Laser 1 (with "Standard" Rig, 7,06 sq-meters. You're definitely weight to much for the Radial and 4.7er Rig that you probably add later for extra-heavy wind conditions), till you're really able to handle a sailing dinghy in that range in heavy air. I know of several beginners here where I live, that did buy a Laser 1 and have lost their fun in reason in stronger winds (more than 4 Bft. and gusts) they did capsized a lot and had much problems to get back into the boat. It needs a while to get familiar with the Laser 1. BUT, if this time is done successful, you not want to change a Laser 1 for any other singlehanded sailing dinghy in that range. Big advantages of the Laser 1 is definitely: she is cartopable and if you think to get over with Laser sailing, you get her sold easy, often without a deficite in price. You want to buy a used Laser, of course and I would advise to take a Laser already with the new "XD" control systems for Cunnigham, Outhaul and Vang. That makes life more easy for you. Used Laser 1 Standard are cheap, compared to other singlehanded sailing boats like the Finn, Contender, "O-Jolle" ( http://www.o-jolle.de/j15/ ), "OK-Jolle" ( http://www.ok-jolle.de/ ) or singlehanded multihulls like Hobie 14.

    From your weight, it would be possible to sail Laser. The maximum load a Laser is able to ship is: 385,8 lbs (175 kg). You may sail single handed or take your young kids or your girlfriends/wife with you, as crew. But the Laser is small, so, you honstly have more fun in sailing a Laser 1, if you sail her single handed (from the objective aspect of doing the sailing as a sport). If you are in the "club of over 220 lbs (100 kg)" (like me, in the beginning of the sailing season), you feel that you are to heavy (to have to much "inertia") to react as quick as the Laser 1 does demand it in heavy air, during you gybe or tack. That's a big disadvantage and a serious reason to think about other single handed sailing dinghies that have been designed better for heavy weight sailors. You need to get quick on the boat (and I mean quick!), if you want to have fun in a Laser in heavy winds with big waves and current and cold spray all around your face... I did have learned it aft a while, so, why not you, too? And another advangtage for you: the Laser definitely helps you to lose weight, if you sail her often. Aft a long season of intensive sailing I lose about 20+ lbs. and the muscles of my body got in a better shape, too (f.e.: aft the first 2 seasons of sailing the Laser I realized, that I lost any problems with my back. (f.e.: lumbago) ).

    For recreational sailing, at holidays in the sun, the Laser is easy to rig and a very good platform for the kids, during they have fun on the lake in the sun with no or low wind. Many here do buy cheap a Laser 1 (perhaps from the decade of the 1970er), take her cartopped with into the holidays and later, aft return to home, they sell the boat again.

    Finally, my serious advise for you, is this nice single handed sailing dinghy: The "Mega Byte" ( http://www.ps2000.ca/boats/mega/mega.htm ). In my personal opinion she is better in quality, compared to a "pimped up" Laser 1 with a Rooster 8.1 Mainsail (f.e. the maststep is absolutely much better in durability and one feels more comfortable than on a Laser hull) and it is made by a top level sailor that in former times (together with Bruce Kirby and Hans Fogh) did invent the Laser 1 Standard: Ian Bruce. At my region they are rare in reason of the lousy promotion and also: we already have other nice single handed sailing dinghies at my region (as I already mentioned above: Finn, Contender, O-Jolle, OK-Jolle).

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  8. doumafam

    doumafam New Member

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    This is all very helpful. I see the more info I give the better the advice. So...

    I will store and sIl this off the beach on Lake Michigan. I had a sunfish that was stolen. Moved on to a hobos 14 turbo for which I weighed too much. Currently have a NacrA 5.0, but even with beach wheels it's too heavy to launch by myself. So that gives you more of my parameters. The cats are great in concept for taking the grand kids along, but actually getting the boat on the water is a higher priority.

    It is not a priority to be able to race on a class.

    The megabyte sounds interesting but probably out of my reach financially. Another boat that has come along: the Banshee. Any thoughts on this boat or other advice?

    Thanks
     
  9. sidewinder

    sidewinder Member

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    I've sailed a barnett 1400 before. I'd say it fits what you are looking for. It is by no means a 2 person boat, the cockpit may be a little deeper and a little longer than the laser, but not by much. This was about 16 years ago, so my memory might be a little foggy.
    I seem to recall it having a sleeved sail like the laser, and very basic outhaul, vang controls. The hull is chined and the daggerboard is more vertical.
    It's not going to be as fast as a laser, but it would make a good beach-boat.
     
  10. Dr. Dave

    Dr. Dave New Member

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    Greetings.
    In the past, I have owned and sailed both a Laser 1 and Barnett 1400 off the beach in Lake Michigan north of Chicago. I sailed them both single handed, but both can accommodate another adult passenger. I never raced either, but if that is a consideration, I would go with the Laser. The Laser could get up on a plane more easily, but was a little more susceptible to going over with a gust or sudden wind shift (e.g. going from backwinded under the bluffs and suddenly out into the true wind). I think the Barnett's chined hull may make it a little more stable. With either, after a while you learn to react quickly when going over to step over the windward gunnel onto the dagger board to bring it up again without getting dunked or even wet. Happily both boats come up with a dry cockpit.
    Unlike the mainsail sleeve over mast of the Laser which presents a problem when ovepowered, the Barnett mainsail is raised with a halyard and luff bolt rope in the mast slot, so it can be lowered if twisting off is not enough. Otherwise, the lines and controls are quite similar.
    See http://www.windwardboatworks.com/images/barnett_instruction_manual.pdf
    Also I tried the Laser short mast with halyard, but found to make the boat a real dog so cannot recommend it.

    One advantage of the Barnett is that it can be fitted with options of a small jib for more performance in lighter wind conditions, and also with oar locks and oars which can be stowed in the cockpit when under sail. The oars proved useful at times to get away from the beach through breaking waves out to more clean water, and also if the wind dies or you have to drop the sail, you can row back to shore.

    Cheers,
    Dr. Dave
     
  11. Just A Mom

    Just A Mom Member

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    I agree with this statement about resale Lasers. We have been searching for a Laser for our son (who races) for about three months now and it's crazy. We find a fairly priced Laser and then *poof* it's gone!
     
  12. Rob Hair

    Rob Hair Member

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    Is that what happened to the Craigslist Laser in Michigan you were going to look at? Sorry you missed it.
     

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