Laser sail quality and cost

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by 154537, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    I mostly agree with you, then.

    The way you said it before, however ("got on my wrong side before"), made it seem like it was something more personal, rather than simply recurring issues with the same boat.
     
  2. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Alan, am I correct in assuming being a measurer is a volunteer position?
     
  3. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Correct
     
  4. MasterMike

    MasterMike D22

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    Exactly. This man is volunteering his time, experience, and expertise to make our game fun and fair.

    Give him a break.

    This is the same reason I don't agree to referee my son's soccer games. Angry parents shouting accusations.
     
  5. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    You know the old saying - no good deed goes unpunished.
     
  6. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    No doubt you're correct Torrid, but what makes the sails so expensive is the number of people taking a cut on the final price of the sail. There is an economy of scale in the production of the sails, but the cloth production would still be quite small because no one else uses the obsolete cloth.

    Authentic Laser Sails:

    Laser Dealers
    Builders (PSA, PSE etc)
    Sailmakers
    Government taxes and duties
    Shipping Companies
    ILCA
    ISAF (I think they get a cut)
    License Holders

    Wow! Who runs this class, the mafia? Its just so surprising that this class lets this happen. If this is one of the biggest class associations out there, then these people should bow down and kiss our feet, not steal every little crumb from the class.
    I have said it before, and will say it again...who in the hiearchy of this orginization is in bed with these people? Rediculous and absurb.

    Now Im reallly Happy to have bought an Intensity sail, and no I wont race with it, nor will I pay class dues to line the pockets of these scammers.
     
  7. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    *Yawn.*
     
  8. Scott B

    Scott B Member

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    I think you should acquire an understanding of how the association/class works (not just the builders association) before you start name calling...
     
  9. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    Nah. It's easier to say stuff like that when you remain ignorant.
     
  10. Sean

    Sean Member

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    I for one have appreciated the many hundred of hours you have given of your time Alan. The way in which you put your own sailing second to the needs of the class and made the measurement process a quick and painless affair was always a pleasure to see.

    I for one hope you keep with your laser sailing for a long time yet. It would be nice to still be sailing against you in our seventies, god willing.


    What a thankless job acting as the sheriff for our class!




    "Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please." Mark Twain
     
  11. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    I appreciate the response posted by AlanD.

    Please understand, I did not want to believe he is one of those who regularly rants about cheaters while being unwilling to actually DO SOMETHING about the problem.

    As one who has played the measurer role at many regattas and has even endured the wrath of frustrated cheaters who have been caught red handed, I feel obligated to remind those who mis read my comments above...

    The post was not trashing AlanD for contributing his endless hours of effort.

    My intent was to object clearly and forcefully to that which I perceived to be a baseless and unsupported genaralized accusation.

    Volunteers who do their very best to police the game are to be thanked and appreciated by those of us who , as a result of other people's efforts, get to enjoy a fair playing atmosphere.

    However

    Our game has a defined proper system for making accusations about alleged cheaters.

    Whether it be a competitor slandering another , a parent slandering a child competitor, or a judge sandering a competitor or entire fleet...

    I will ALWAYS be THE GUY who stands up and demands facts or retraction.

    Lynch mobs have no place in this world.

    <<<end hijack>>

    On topic??

    I hope the builders can fiugure out a way to provide decent enough equipment to end this argument.
     
  12. pez

    pez Member

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    ^^^ this....
     
  13. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    Krackos, Ignorant is uninformed, and maybe thats me.

    Dumb is when someone is trying to speak up for you and the paying members, and all you do is slam them. How about some intelligent debate, or an explanation? I would like to join this class and race these boats, I just need convincing that my money is going to be properly used. Maybe there are others that are in my boat, and when people like you just say "let them stay ignorant, its easier", well that really doesn't promote your class in a positive way. Your avatar picture dsiplays you pretty well apparently.
     
  14. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    This has been discussed so many times, it's unbelievable.

    Due to the slow traffic here, the thread is probably still on the first page of the Class Politics forum.

    I never said to let you remain ignorant. I was sarcastically implying you obviously made that comment out of ignorance and that it's easy to do so when you have to clue regarding the inner workings of the class

    To be honest, I don't care to promote the class.

    The comment about my av...?
     
  15. Eric_R

    Eric_R D10 Secretary

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    http://www.laserforum.org/showpost.php?p=139642&postcount=50
     
  16. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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  17. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    Kratos, now thats an avatar!

    I know this has been discussed, but why is it still a problem for those of us who haven't been brainwashed that "this is just the way it is in an organization".

    I have been a member of 3 sailing organizations/classes. Here is my experience.

    In F18, there are 5+ manufacturers, and several serious sailmakers. Its an ISAF recognized class, and my hunch is that when cats are invited back to the olympics, the F18 will be that class. As a sail dealer for a short time, there were never any kickbacks to the class. Im sure we payed ISAF something, but it wasnt a piece of everything sold.

    A Cat class Awesome internationally recognized class with many manufacturers and sailmakers. No kickbacks here either.

    I was also a member of the Lase class for 1 year until I sold my boat. Now I learn that on top of dues, the class and the manufacturer(SMOD) get a piece of everything that is sold. Its a strong class, one that ISAF and many sailing orginizations want be associated with, so why, why, would we pay them? They should be courting us, offering incentives to get the Laser at thier regattas, giving the class discounts and such. But instead we pay them. In my small pea brain it juts doesnt add up. Its not how all major organizations operate, maybe some, but I assure you not all.


    2 questions Are the manufacturer sails inferior in cloth, design, or price?

    Does the class want/need a change?

    If the answer is yes to either, then why not change?
     
  18. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    I didn't read much of your post, but yes, the sails are essentially poor quality.

    When you have guys using sails for one regatta, that says something.
     
  19. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    That is incredibly insulting, and you'd better explain yourself.
     
  20. Kratos

    Kratos Member

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    Have you read all the posts in this thread in their entirety?

    I just went back and checked to see if the sarcasm made sense/stood out and, based on the condition above, it does.

    But, here:

    (Link to a post mad by Tracy.)
    ...
     

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