Laser Quality

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by viktor188924, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Steven

    Steven New Member

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    All I can say is that I am glad that they don't manufacture cars. What we would have is a vehicle that has over priced parts, no aftermarket parts only OEM available at the dealership, constantly breaking apart, inconsistant build quality and rusting out.

    And oh yes the car would cost more than any other comparable vehicles
     
  2. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    "What we would have is a vehicle that has over priced parts, constantly breaking apart, inconsistant build quality and rusting out."


    Steve I think you just basically described every American car ever made
     
  3. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    FORD....

    Fix
    Or
    Repair
    Daily

    I know, an old joke.
     
  4. Steven

    Steven New Member

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    Spelled backwards
    Driver
    Returned
    On
    Foot

    Or how about this
    Failure
    Italian
    Automotive
    Technology

    or just simply Fix It Again Tony
     
  5. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    When I was in the Navy my ship was the USS FORD and that was our motto too!

    Seriously though I think that you guys who think the boats are crap are generally off base or at least going on isolated bad experiences. A small boat that holds up for 10 or even 20 or more years and keeps a pretty high resale can't be all that bad.

    And for everyone who wants a cheaper boat that's even better quality (all of us, I'm guessing) it might be a good idea to remember that every North American Laser builder before Vanguard went bankrupt and Vanguard is, I believe, generally doing a much better quality control job than previous builders (weren't the '80s vintage boats generally reviled?). It doesn't do us any good at all having builders who can't stay afloat just so we can save a buck or two up front.

    Certainly I'd hate to see the current builder "rest on their laurels" and not keep making incremental improvements to the product.

    But I read somewhere once that car companies could make a bumper that would work at 60MPH but it would cost a fortune and weigh so much that performance and gas mileage and so on would suffer. So I'm sure someone could probably build a Laser out of unobtanium that would never break or wear out but it would likely cost so damn much that even Bill Gates might have trouble affording it. Or it would probably be such a heavy tank of a boat that no one would want to sail it. And either way the company would go out of business because no one would ever buy a second one!
     
  6. Steven

    Steven New Member

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    I have a Laser that is of 1988 vintage and still looks and performs almost like new and owned it since 1993. I am perhaps very cautious of my Laser and treat it with care and luckily have gone unscathed all these years.

    Yes it leaks (tried many times to find the culprit without success), the hull has gone a bit soft in the bow.

    I think it is the sum of the parts (not to mention the cost) that give the boat a bad rap. Such as:
    -masts have a habit of snapping
    -traveler fairleads breaking at the worst time
    -sails that only have a one year competitive life span that costs about 3 times as much as they should
    -bailers that are one level above 'junk'
    -mast steps in older boats that were under-engineered
    -gel coat that is about a 1/16" thick
     
  7. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Not all prev builders went belly up - The prev owner before Vanguard was Sunfish/Laser - Sunfish/Laser was making money building the two boats. They bought it from Pearson. Pearson did have financial difficulties, but not because of the Laser, because of bad business decisions on the other parts of their business which led them to try and make up some of the losses cutting corners on the Laser and Sunfish. There may have been other owners that had trouble in the 80's as well building the Laser, I was out the class at that time, but I know Performance Sailcraft did just fine as the builder in the early/mid 70's too.

    The whole premise of the Laser precludes the builders and the World Concil from making the boat better under the heading of "all boats are the same" Many classes have died when the class has allowed a new/improved model to be used, obsoleting all prev boats. This must be first and foremost in the decision making process, otherwise it would not be costly to fix the glaring weaknesses and produce a better boat, sail, spars and blades for a very small increase of the current cost of the current boat. But this new "improved" Laser would not be the same as those before it.

    I also agree that there is some truth to the statement above that if they fixed the weaknesses, the builders will sell less new boats and replacement sails and spars and their bottom line would be affected negatively. So that would mean in addition to obsoleting all the prev boats, they would have not choice but to charge more for the new boat.
     
  8. Matthias

    Matthias New Member

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    Coming back to quality of new Lasers. Vanguard has a problem with the centre board trunk in general. From 6 boats that I helped unloading between Christmas and New Year, 4 of them had the trunk offset to one side. One of them as much as 3/4". I don't know what the allowed tolerance is. Our coach said he has seen worse. I picked the best two for my relatives and left it at that.

    In the fall there was a new boat at the Canadian NQR fresh from the dealer and the sailor noticed a definite difference on the two tacks. That boat supposable was worse than what I have seen. The dealer took it back and was trying to sell it as a recreational boat at a reduced price.

    Last Year at least 2 new boats at our club were leaking. The dealer came in and fixed the gunnels.

    By the way, in case you wonder how I measured the offset of the centre board trunk, we flipped the boat upside down and pulled a string from the split line at the bow to the point where the rudder attaches, that gave us the centre line.

    I would rather pay 10% more and get better quality and also a longer lasting boat, but I admit I like that it is an affordable boat.

    Some people here say the boats from Australia are better and buy them there. They could not buy a container load though. Vanguard got wind of it and put a stop to it.

    The two boats from my relatives seem pretty good so far.

    Has anybody done a weight comparison on new boats?
     
  9. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Are you saying that the location of the trunk itself in the hull (not deck) was off center ? If you are, given that the trunk location is part of the hull mold how do you think that is possible.

    Or, are you saying that when the board is in place, it is not dead center fore and aft and/or perpindicular to the hull bottom ?

    On the weight issue, a few of us that post here have weighed new boats that join the fleets we sail in, I have the weights of 10 new boats from the past year and a half, all within a 3 pound range - now that could be because most of them are weighed before buying and the buyers are using that weight to help select, or ....
     
  10. viktor188924

    viktor188924 New Member

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    Thank you Matthias. Wow.The most Relevant post! I knew the faultiness wasn't just in two boats!

    I agree, It looks to me that the deck part would be offcenter. I mean, if you look at the gunnels you can see that the joints are off when you follow it around. I don't know if it's that, or if theres a problem with the alignment in the mould itself.
     

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