JC Boom Sleeve - Production Prototype pics

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by SFBayLaser, May 21, 2006.

  1. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    Thats not that bad, a Clew strap comes out to about $20 and a hook and block comes out to like $16. So compared to that, its only about 4 dollars more expensive, but is a much more efficient product.
     
  2. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    It's a marvelous product. I've been trying one out and it will be worth every penny to buy a second one for the second boat. There is no binding of line or friction as the sleeve moves along the boom. Finally, an outhaul that I don't have to flick to get it to release.
     
  3. stinky

    stinky New Member

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    I would be surprised if the retail price was $40.00 when compared to the other Vanguard supplied parts. All up with all the parts $60.00 to 80.00 might be it.

    Before voting the price might be nice to have nailed down.
     
  4. 157800

    157800 Member

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    so uhhh... does it work? what is the friction like, will we all have to mclube our boom before each sail?
     
  5. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    It works. Very little friction. McLube only in light air. Also, under $40 is what I heard. I hope people vote for this because I'll stamp my feet if I have to give this up!
     
  6. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    In response to some messages on the Laser e-mail list, Chip Johns (who knows) posted the following message (and gave permission for it to be re-posted here):

    I quoted $50 and this is what the retail price will probably be.

    Vote!

    BTW, I have been using one all spring, I love the convenience. My daughter
    likes that it is easier to adjust the outhaul which is critical for a 95
    pounder sailing a 4.7.


    Chip Johns
     
  7. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    The builders love it when we demand "builders only" supplies for our racing addictions. Our vote to allow this part will help the wallets of our fine builders.
    Well funded builders help the game. I am OK with well funded builders.

    Now the other shoe drops>>>
    1. It cost us some money to publicize the new part and to sell it to the membership.
    2. It cost us money to hold a vote.
    3. It will cost us more money to tell the sailors about the new part and to publish new rules about the part
    4. it will cost us money and effort to enforce the rule which allows the builders to monopoloze the supply stream.


    I propose the new fitting be sold in North America with a $5 per fitting royalty fee and a sticker attached to reflect the payment of the fee. The rule should clearly state that No stickerless fitting may be used in any Laser race in North America.

    If none of us but 2000 NA Class members buy the fitting, we will have enough to buy a new Laser, trailer, boat cover, life jacket, hiking pants, Gore Tex top, dolly, and protective gloves for the valuable fingers of the the dedicated fellow who hosts the Laser Forum.

    Also, if Vanguard produces 1000 new Lasers per year rigged with the fitting we could pay virtually the entire annual postage for our North American Newsletter.

    We could all do a much better job of promoting Lasers if the builders and Associations would make certain each other are always well funded!!!
     
  8. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    John Christianson looked at the pictures I posted and reminded me that the correct way to run the outhaul line has it going to the right side of the fitting, not the left as I have it. My excuse is a combination of "I'm right handed" and "I've always done it that way."

    Here are John's comments:

    Tracy,
    The final integrity of this fitting rests on the sail never coming off by accident.
    When the sheet is on the port side along with the open end of the hook, a slight
    risk exists that the sheet could, in some way, push the long straight hook end
    forward and release the sail. I'll admidt it might never happen but if a risk exists,
    a moving line running over the hook, possibly snagging it, is that risk.It would be
    the same motion as a human hand twisting it to release the sail.
    I see no reason to add an unneeded risk. As to the cotter pin fraying the sheet,
    I have been watching that for years and see no interference.

    Some details:
    The reason we do not use the more common ring-ding instead of the straight
    cotter pin is because forces in the sleeve cause the ring-ding to stand up,
    which would interfere with the sheet.A stainless 1/16" cotter is a common
    hardware store item.
    I can almost guarantee that some will mount the hook backwards, pointing to
    starboard, which although it looks almost normal is unstable and allows the
    sail to come off. This is a bit humerous as it seems no amount of clear instructions
    even with pictures, will stop some from doing it.
    JC



    Yes, I did once mount it backwards and, as he says, it was very humorous to everyone watching me flail around...
     
  9. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    I'm all for inventors (John C) and builders who support the class making money.

    At the same time, I kind of like the model we have for tillers and tiller extensions.

    I'd be in favor of a rule change that says:

    The clew of the sail shall be attached to the boom by a tie line or by some other means that holds the clew in close proximity to the boom, that permits outhaul adjustment, and that does not have the effect of stiffening the boom, pulling the clew below the top edge of the boom, or extending the clew attachment point outboard of the outhaul fairlead at the end of the boom.

    If this rule passed, I'd buy the JC strap at $40-50, and I'll bet most of us would.. As someone else pointed out, it's about the same price as a clewstrap plus a little block plus a hook, and it's better. At the same time, we avoid passing an overly restrictive rule.
     
  10. sastanley

    sastanley ILCA Member

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    I like your thinking Chris. I love the Laser but the restrictive class rules kill me!
     
  11. pez

    pez Member

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    So, never having to apply the Laser rules to my sailing, does this mean that the folks that are making these out of schedule 40 PVC pipe will now be legal?

    Just saying that $40 for a part that you can make for $4 seems like it has "boat disease" where anything you buy that goes on or near a boat is 3x the price it should be...

    I have to admit that the PVC seems like a much better material than the metal, but my newbie flag is still flying high...
     
  12. slalomskier

    slalomskier New Member

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    Thanks to Merrily, i just recived a prototype of the JC Boom Sleeve. I just finished putting it on my boom, and it looks and works perfectly. I actualy had trouble putting it on and tying it to my outhaul line because it kept on mooving up and down the boom. Now that it is on, i can see that i wont be needing my mclube any more. The price i spend on mclube every year for my laser will definately offset the price for the boom sleeve. I will be going to regatas in the north east, and will be bringing it with me for people to try.
     
  13. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Rules and new laws almost always follow the money. I am certainly not trying to say anyone is improperly setting himself or his company up for any improper profit. I am also not saying the new sleeve is being promoted by anyone who would personally profit from its distribution.

    However

    No one who has been involved in the creation of the new rule would make any significant personal profit from your rule.

    So... Just as lots of other obviously fair and decent rules never are proposed or voted upon...Your rule had no supporter at the right time and place.

    I love your rule!!

    Too bad it had no timely and adequate selfish support.

    Have you ever considered using your youth and vigor to get involved, figure it out, and run the Laser Class??

    I would vote for you!!
     
  14. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    Youth and vigor? I'm a grey bearded fat old geezer, Fred! It's Monday afternoon and my knees are still complaining to me about Saturday morning's racing.

    I race a laser because, as personal expressions of midlife crises go, it's cheaper than driving a red sports car and more family-friendly than taking up with a mistress!

    But I do get involved -- at the grass roots level. I helped build up a frostbiting fleet last winter, and I'm probably going to be trying to build up a summertime fleet next year.
     
  15. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    I've been using the JC sleeve set-up for about 3 weeks now. It's a very nice piece of gear, and the hook as supplied with it is 1000% better than the 2 (or more) earlier Harken hooks. The ears on the sleeve hold the hook in the right place, so it's geometry works quite well to hold, and as a quick release.

    I use a single wrap around the boom end, kinda like Fred suggested, and the static portion of the outhaul passing the the block on the bottom side. The rest of the primary runs down the starboard side. No inhaul, nor McLube so far, just to give it a fair test. To ease at the WM I just blow the cleated line, with a knot at max ease. In light air it doesn't exactly run out easily(w/o the inhaul), but is usually fully eased by the time I'm done with everything else. Easing on the way into the WM would make it slide easily, but I'm often too busy to do this.

    I had been using a clew strap, and the single loop over the boom end. My primary is that slippery vectran stuff, so lately I've skipped the block/shackle/hook routine, and just pass the end loop thru the sail, and slip it on the boom end. Simple, secure and quick release (and cheap).

    I'd guess the JC has about 1/10 the friction of a clew strap.

    The new rule doesn't seem too restrictive to me, So I'm voting "for".

    Al Russell 182797
     
  16. slalomskier

    slalomskier New Member

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    one thing i forgot to mention. I love the hook because it is much longer than the standardd harken hook that i used to use.
     
  17. jimmy

    jimmy New Member

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    When do we find out if the boom sleeve is approved or not?
     
  18. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Check out the "ILCA Rules Vote" thread. Basically, ILCA is in the process of verifying membership for those who voted and are expected to have the vote tallied in time to submit to the World Council meeting. This meeting will be held just after the Laser World Championship in South Korea next month.
     
  19. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    Brings to mind the picture of basements full of poll workers squinting at ballot cards looking for "dimpled chads"
     
  20. laserbill2

    laserbill2 New Member

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    Sarah B, how do you secure the Holt hook and block assembly to the boom? Where do you run the line?

    Thanks!
     

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