ISCA Website...

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by foggy_notion, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. foggy_notion

    foggy_notion Hmm...I wonder...

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    So the Website got a facelift…

    I say facelift because that’s all it is. They inverted the background color and moved everything to the upper left corner, that’s it! Oh, and they removed the links to our regional sites and added the NA’s Dates (Hmm..I wonder how they got those so quick?)

    None of the content has been updated and now it’s labeled as the “International” class site. I can't believe we're paying $900+ per year for this site and the ISCA gets their name on it?

    I really hope this is not the “NEW” site that Dick Tillman was raving about at the Worlds.


    This is sad! Let Brian take over already!!!!!
     
  2. foggy_notion

    foggy_notion Hmm...I wonder...

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  3. Bishop

    Bishop 43681

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    Re: Website...

    If you'd like to discuss the Sunfish website, email me directly.

    Bishop Stieffel
    sunfish@datasync.com

    I built the original site in 1991 and maintained and paid for it for 11 years before I was approached concerning any type of compensation for my efforts.
     
  4. foggy_notion

    foggy_notion Hmm...I wonder...

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    Re: Website...

    Well, I probably will email you…but why not just share it here on the public forum? Do you really think that I wouldn’t immediately post everything you say on here anyway? Why not just share your opinion with us all.

    Thank you! There I said it…is that what you’re waiting for? What does this have to do with whether or not there are better options for us as a Class at this time?







    Let me ask you a simple question…

    Which site is better, yours or Brian’s?
     
  5. scap114

    scap114 Member

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    First of all, I do not know all the facts about the website, compensation wise, but if it has been done on a volunteer basis for 11 years, with someone footing the bill from their own pocket I don't think it is right to criticize. I also don't know if the current compensation, but if it is a token payment that does not come close to compensation for the time, effort, and materials, then again, don't criticize but offer to assist. Help improve what you don't like.
    It is very easy to find fault with things, but unless you are willing to work to improve the things you do not like, there is not much point. Many things done in an organizaton are done a by volunteers that put a lot of their time and sometimes their own money in for the betterment of the organization. I know the only reason volunteers don't just walk away when their efforts are citicized by people that only critize is that they, the volunteers are trying to do something positive for the organizaton.
    If their work is not appreciated, perhaps professionals should be hired to do the work and we could all pay a fee to subscribe to the website. I am sure that would go over.
     
  6. Mike Fortner

    Mike Fortner New Member

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    It is easy to be critical when you hide in the "fog" or the "purple haze" behind a screen name and a fake alias.

    Thank you Bishop for having the vision many years ago to establish a site for the Sunfish Class. Our class can only benefit from people like yourself who dedicate time and resources on the side in hopes of promoting Sunfish sailing. Any compensation you may be receiving from the class is long overdue and has my support and I am sure the support of many others.

    While I am a little disappointed about the NA's date...(that work thing gets in the way again...it is a little difficult when you are a teacher to ask for the last week of school off) I can understand how local conditions and scheduling can play a huge part in planning a quality event. I have been involved in the planning of two "Major" events. ('99 Pan Am Trials and US Masters) Many times regatta organizers have many factors pulling on them (staffing, weather, budgets, volunteers just to name a few) It is a huge undertaking and I applaud any group willing to take on the task.

    It would be great to have a "set" rotation for the major events, I get the feeling that the reality of the subject is that given the task of running a huge event, our representatives on the Board of Directors have a difficult time finding groups to run them.

    Thank You to the entire Board of Directors for your service to the class.

    Not Afraid To Sign My Name....
    Mike Fortner
    Rochester Canoe Club
     
  7. edboat

    edboat Member

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    It appears that Foggy may have an agenda here that we are not aware of.
     
  8. scap114

    scap114 Member

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    The start of the "agenda" might be found in some of the posts under "Any First-half of '07 Regionals? ". For 11 days as a "member" of the site, someone has a lot of information about dates and people.
     
  9. Bradley

    Bradley Administrator Staff Member

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    Back to the original topic: For $900/year the class is getting ripped off IMHO. First, I want to mention that I appreciate all of Bishop's efforts over the years. At most times, volunteer webmastering is a thankless task.

    That said, I have contacted the class about starting a new dynamic website like I have created for the Capri14 Class, the US 470 Class, and even the Laser Class. These websites are easy to maintain and allow for multiple administrators to post information to the site. For example, all regional reps could be given access so they could directly post news, events, and other important information straight to the site without a middle man. I didn't receive any interest and my estimate would have been much less than $900/year. I hope the class is planning some kind of new website because for an organization as large as they are, the existing website is not acceptable.

    Further, if there is something that is not included on the class website that you would like to see included here please let me know. I am always looking to improve TSF and bring you more content.

    Best Regards,
     
  10. 58984 EW

    58984 EW Member

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    Terrific. Sounds like exactly the kind of solution the Class should be looking for. Thank you Bradley. Bishop, while I appreciate your years of volunteer work and recent years of being paid, I agree with many others that the current site is a liability to the class.

    Every national and world event is dominated by talk about how the class can stay relevant and attract younger sailors. We debate rule changes, equipment changes, etc. but by far the most public face we have to the world is our Website.

    What we have now is sub standard and not fitting of a great class like the US Sunfish Class. I'll again volunteer to do anything that needs doing in this area.

    Eric Woodman
     
  11. scap114

    scap114 Member

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    Everyone has their opinion of what a website should or should not be, but, IMHO the Capri 14 and the US470 do not qualify as 'dynamic' International sites. I guess if I had designed them, and made them to my standards for a website, then I would call them 'dynamic', but I did not, so I will not. I am not knocking the quality of the sites, but they don't stand out, for me, as being "International" but more "regional". IMHO an "International" site would not have so much 'local' info.
    Also, it seems we have lost the "US Sunfish" site. The new site is the ISCA, or "International" site. It seems that the sites should form an inverted tree diagram with the International site at the top, National sites under that, with regional sites under them and finally local fleet sites on the bottom. The International site, IMHO, should be very general, with some sharp photos of Sunfish sailing action, information about class rules and info on the International competitions. The National sites, which we now seem to be lacking for the US would have the National regattas, dates for territory regattas and perhaps any 'cup' regattas that cross regional lines, along with pictures and results of the National regattas. The regional, or territory sites would have regional championships, fleet championships, fleet challanges and listings of boats and such for sale.
    I do agree that the old US site was pretty plain, and the only use I had for it was the FAQ section.
    If there is work to be done, then perhaps a glitzy ISCA site should be made with some sharp action photos, boat info and history, rule updates and links to National sites.
    If the old USSCA is not going to be updated and glitzed up, than a new North American site shopuld replace it.
    Now, for a totally unrelated question, how did the old USSCA site get to become the ISCA site?
    How did it get promoted from US to International? If it is truly "international" why are all the reps from the US? Is there something 'political' going on?
     
  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Why don't we find out who is running the Sunfish Nederland site and hire them to run the USSCA site? Hey, even if it's in Dutch it would be better than what we have now.
     
  13. Bradley

    Bradley Administrator Staff Member

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    Scap, in away those sites are essentially regional. The class size and traffic to those sites are more inline with a large regional site. There isn't enough interest at the local level to support individual websites for every fleet or area. A national level website is the only way to have somewhat recent news and forum postings. Understand that those websites are examples but not an exact replica of what a Sunfish National or International site would need to be.
     
  14. scap114

    scap114 Member

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    As I said, everyone has their own opinion of what a website should be for and I am only relaying my opinion. IMHO an International site should be the door that opens the way for more specific information. It should promote the boat, as without boats you have no class. It would do this with current information about the boat and a history of the developement of the boat. It should promote the activity of the class by giving information about the the number of boats being sailed and opportunities for competition. This can be very general. It should provide links to more localized boat events through national sites (USSCA, NEDERLANDS, etc). It should, IMHO, only be concerned with relaying information about rule considerations, membership applications, Class officials, International (Worlds)and National regattas (NA's)and of course, a link to the boat builder and FAQ.
    I have taken a look at the link supplied by the OG, and, although my command of the language is non existent, it looks like they have a Sunfish history, with photo on the site (De Sunfish). Nice touch!
    On a closer note, the Comet Class has a site with some nice touches. (http://www.cometclass.com) I am a Comet owner, and although the Comet Class is a very small class compared to the Sunfish, their website has some nice touches. The 'home' page has a brief blurb about the boat and a short slideshow. The 'About the Comet' has a nice album of old photos and links to articles about the boat. They also have links to membership forms and regatta info. The Comet class is a very regional class and I see the website is need of updating but it gives, to me, a nice impression of the boat and class. It contains areas I would not include on an National or International site, such as classified for boats, fleets and local regatta results. These i would leave to a USSCA national site or regional sites.
    I have to commend you on the forum you run. The Comet forum was dropped due to what I believe was uncontrolled posts of 'spam' and other garbage that appears on sites. You have done an exceptional job of monitoring this forum and keeping it running as a place you can visit and not worry about improper material. When ever a questionable post appears it has been removed quickly. Great Job!!!
     
  15. Eric Woodman

    Eric Woodman New Member

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    While we are on the topic of the Website, does anyone know if there has been any thought given to making Windward Leg a digital publication? Printing and mailing costs must be significant, and I'd think the vast majority of class members are now online. New editions, in PDF format, could be e-mailed to dues-paying members, and those who insist on a print version could have a printed copy mailed to them.

    I think another potential byproduct of an electronic approach is it could perhaps spur more folks to share race results, photos, tips/tricks, or just interesting stories. I’ve wondered why every single Sunfish race in the country isn’t chronicled on the Sunfish Class Website somewhere. I realize there will always be problems getting people to share this info, or even aware that there is a class/Website, but if the site had an open area for results (This Forum, perhaps) maybe things would snowball.

    Right now the Web is an afterthought to the class, it seems. And as a guy who runs Websites at a major corporation who used to work for newspapers, I know there are significant emotional and nostalgic obstacles to overcome with such a shift, but the reality is the Web has it all over the printed medium. It’s cheaper, faster, more democratic, and tends to make people more likely to be involved. I’d like to see a Web-first approach to class communications, with printed info available for those who insist upon on getting ink on their fingers

    Just a thought, but it could be a way to clear some overhead from the budget. I’m willing to help in this effort in any way I can.

    Respectfully,

    Eric Woodman
    58984
     
  16. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Great idea Eric. And thanks for offering to help make it happen. Let's do it.
     
  17. Kevin Pierce

    Kevin Pierce New Member

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    For an example of this, see the Laser class site at http://www.nalaser.org/

    Click the "Laser Sailor" button, and choose an issue...

    Kevin
     
  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    We didn't let the Laser class beat us to a good idea again did we?
     
  19. Bradley

    Bradley Administrator Staff Member

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    The laser class is actually about to put there entire membership database online so a member can login to the website and view information about his/her membership and view hidden resources (like The Laser Sailor). They have been working on this for quite some time and was actually part of the original goal of the new Laser site when we started planning it way back in the beginning.

    Cheers,
     
  20. Gail

    Gail 24186

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    Suffice to say much of what is being written about is under consideration. Don't ask for details because they are not ready yet.

    The Sunfish Class has been run by volunteers and the Class continues whenever possible to seek volunteers to handle tasks as much as possible.

    Bishop did a great job for many years and I share my thanks as well. When he tired of it, we did not get asked for relief. Hurricane Katrina was close in time to the lessening in interest by coincidence and contributed to the slowdown. There has been another volunteer willing to maintain but the volunteer has not been accepted.

    So, patience is necessary at this time while details get worked out. Don't press.
     

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