Is this right??

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by LASERNUT, May 26, 2010.

  1. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    Current class rules state:

    i. The mainsheet shall be a single line, and be
    attached to the becket of the aft boom block, and
    then passed through the traveller block, the aft
    boom block, boom eye strap, forward boom block
    and the mainsheet block. After the mainsheet
    block it shall be knotted
    . The mainsheet shall not
    be controlled aft of the forward boom block except
    to facilitate a tack or gybe.
    ii. The tail of the mainsheet may also be knotted or
    tied to either the base of the mainsheet block, the
    hiking strap, the hiking strap support line, or the
    hiking strap shock cord.

    Our current class measurer in the UK currently says that you must have a knot after the mainsheet block even if there is another knot tying it to the toestrap. See photos.

    Does the knot tying the mainsheet to the toestrap not count? It's still a knot.
     

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  2. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    This issue came up once before on the Forum. I believe that Alan D explained that the knot is for safety, the idea being that you can hang on to the sheet more easily after a capsize, preventing the boat from sailing away from you. Of course, this won't work if you also tie the end of your sheet to the strap.

    Therefore, I am not sure about what to do. I used to tie my sheet like LaserNut, but changed because of the safety issue.

    PS: my sailing is limited to low-level events where nobody cares about such 'subtle' class legality issues.
     
  3. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    It wasn't me, you can alway ask for clarification from Jean-Luc
    http://www.laserinternational.org/info/technicalmeasurementcontacts

    However, in my opinion there is a knot in the mainsheet if it's just tried to the hiking strap and there is no need for additional knots. When working with the other international measurers, we haven't required the addition knot.
     
  4. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    Defiantly not you Alan :)

    I'll contact Jean-Luc and let you know what he says.
     
  5. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    It could also be a UK Sailing Federation/Association safety requirement. I know Australia has several safety regulations which may appear quite strange to some.
     
  6. LASERNUT

    LASERNUT Member

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    No, this is quoted as a Laser class rules issue. Not local/safety rules.
     
  7. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Measurers are not infallible and sometimes we just interpret rules incorrectly. Jean-Luc is the man to speak too.
     
  8. Strangler

    Strangler Member

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    ii. The tail of the mainsheet may also be knotted

    Seems clear cut to me. You must have a stopper knot and may also tie off the tail if you wish.
     
  9. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    (i) It doesn't say there must be a figure eight knot any other type of stopper knot, just a knot, so a bowline fit's that category.
    (ii) It effectively says that the tail of the mainsheet can be tied off It also says that it can be tied into the boat in certain locations.
    Wait for Jean-Luc is all I can say. I've forced him to change his mind previously over the interpretation upon close reading of the rule and this rule has been clumsily written IMO.
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    "May also" does not rule out using the same knot as described as "after the mainsheet block."

    Expanding the language without contradicting teh requirments of teh simple rules may help make the English more easy to comprehend.

    There must be a knot in the mainsheet after it passes through the block at the front of the hiking / kicking strap. That knot may also be a knot that secures the end of the sheet to the base of the block or the back of the hiking / kicking strap.

    I believe the rule is written sufficiently clearly to allow either one or two knots.

    The rule is not written sufficiently clearly to disallow counting the knot holding the tail to one of the allowed locations as "The" knot behind the block.

    Note also: The Laser class rules are quite direct in assigning powers about measurent to one and only one person. No one but the international measurer has the power to make ANY measurement decision.
     
  11. John Gilmour

    John Gilmour Member

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    I tie off the mainsheet to the hiking strap, but I think I should probably add another stopper as well. the reason is that the mainsheet I use, Bzzz line, is hard to keep a knot in. The knot on the hiking strap always comes loose. Usually I have used two half hitches, which did not hold. Today I tied a bowline and that did not stay knotted either. But a figure eight a couple feet from the end would stay in place, I think.
     
  12. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    I pull my Bzzz line through one of the rear hiking strap pad eyes and tie a figure eight knot. it has never come loose.
     
  13. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I notice that the June edition of Laser World (ILCA) makes a very clear statement that the man sheet must have a knot and that any knot tying it to e.g. the toe strap does not count. (http://www.laserinternational.org/laserworld Page 6

    Ian
     
  14. uid100

    uid100 New Member

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    Reading the rule again, I have an issue with the other end.

    "...and be attached to the becket of the aft boom block."

    I've never tied my mainsheet to this block, instead I've always run the sheet back along the boom, through the block, forward through the upper traveler block, then back up and forward again through the becket and stopped with a figure eight, not attached to the becket. Hard to go block-to-block (two-blocked) on the sheet if you attach it. It would seem this is not legal.

    Thoughts?
     
  15. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    The definition of attach is fairly loose: to fasten, secure or join. So I'd argue that even the figure-eight through the becket qualifies.

    I had my figure-eight work loose once or twice when I used just that to attach it to the becket so now I tie the figure-eight and then do one loop around the becket (ie overhand knot). The figure-eight keeps the overhand from slipping and the pressure of the overhand keeps the figure-eight from shaking loose. And it's easy to tie and untie. Besides being more secure, it would definitely qualify as attached and I don't think it keeps you from going two-blocked.
     
  16. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Doesn't stop me. I never even sail your boat
     

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