Intensity Sails

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Rob B, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    FWIW... I think if you are racing a Laser then you should respect the class rules always. Granted, there are specific situations where it is worth looking the other way (e.g. you are trying to get new sailors out and they don't have all the "right" equipment but they aren't going to be a factor in the racing anyway). But, in general, I think once you open the door...

    Everyone seems to be quick to recognize Intensity sails as ok replacements for class sails and from what I have read on TLF they don't seem to be any faster or slower than class sails. But, now that I know I don't need to race with a class legal sail, what if I buy a "practice" sail from my local sailmaker for less than an Intensity sail and, oh by the way, the sailmaker tweaks it just a tiny bit so I can point higher, or go just a teeny bit faster? Are you going to say ok to the guy with the Intensity sail and no to me?

    And where does it stop? If it is ok to use sails that are not class legal, is it also going to be ok to use afermarket blocks? blades? Spars? ??

    You can say "this is all crazy, who would do that for fleet racing?" Well, it does happen, I have raced against some people who thought winning the annual race in the middle of nowhere was the most important regatta on the planet.

    It seems to me that the single most underappreciated part of Laser sailing is that fact that we can arrive at a regatta and assume that all the boats are identical and that the racing will be sailor against sailor. Further, a simple glance at a boat reassures you that this must be true (unless someone has spent a ton of money to hide it). But if you start allowing aftermarket equipment during racing, how can you be sure that the guy who won was really the best sailor?

    Just my two cents as a sailor and not as a class official.
     
  2. IntensitySails

    IntensitySails Member

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    My apologies for the "illegal posts" I was trying to get the word out on a new item that I will not mention again and risk an offense.

    I do appreciate the discussion. Please know that I only got into this business as a frustrated Laser sailor wanting to be more competitive without costing alot and draw more people into our great sport by making it more affordable.

    SF Laser mentioned that there is a $12 payment per clas legal sail to the class. I offered this to the class when I started out and was flatly refused. I am not trying to harm the class. I am a member.

    I am not motivated by creating a stir here. I want this sport to be more affordable. So I am doing something about it.
     
  3. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    What is even more worrying is when a supplier that is supposed to supply class legal parts starts sending out parts that are cheap copies.

    Probably not a big concern with the American scene, but in back waters like out here, the slippery slope has begun.

    That is more of a worry than Intensity sails saying they are selling you a non legal part.
     
  4. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    do you guys think a race can be won or lost based on class legal, or nonlegal boom blocks?
     
  5. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    nope.

    ILCA can nominate 2008 carbo blocks as standard or Holt Allen 1976 vintage plastic crappers for all I care, as long as everyone has the same gear.

    The most obvious grey area is the addition of the turbo kits which make things much easier. I've heard that adjusting the vang downwind was out of the question with the original set up.

    As soon as lasers become anything other than strict OD, then significant advances in sail and foil design will allow the guy with the biggest wallet to have the edge. I wouldn't like to see the class begining to be divided into a fleet of old uncompetitive and new competitive boats and I don't think the intensity sails do that because they are the same shape as the legal sail.

    If lasers weren't OD, why the hell would anyone sail them? They aren't the greatest boat of it's size.
     
  6. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Maybe a race wont be won or lost on a boom block but it avoids people making it any sort of issue. It avoids people getting into the state of mind where they start searching for stuff to buy that might give them "an edge". Were people to start having different boom blocks you can just see certain types of people gathering around a boat with some super turbo block after a race looking at them, spinning them and thinking about how long to their next pay cheque. And that (for me) is not what Lasers are about. It is more about people thinking and talking about tactics, strategy, technique, etc. rather than gizmos.


    I am all for keeping the class a strict one design. I'm even unsure about the new XD stuff (though that happened before I started and I got one anyway - though not everybody has) - and it's history. I would probably have voted in favour having changed my mind every few hours before voting.


    Ian
     
  7. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    What happens if someone comes up with a block that costs 150 Dollars, but the line runs through it so much smoother that it means the sheet won't drag in the water, or that someone does not have to hold the boom out and can concentrate on other things - the guy with the most money wins - or at least has an advantage - that is what the One Design concept tries to avoid.

    Same thing with the 'Upgrade' kit. There was nothing wrong with the old set up, it was clunky, it was hard to adjust (in some eyes), but we all had the same thing. Now, in my group, there are those that shelled out for the rig (I sadly did after 4 years of resistance) and those that do not. You can see the difference in the amount to adjustments those that do not use the new set up are doing compared to those that do. Again, the Have's and the Have Not's. Full Disclosure, I like the 'new' setup, however, not the pricetag that came with it or the fact that some don't have it.

    This One Design concept is inherently prone to making 50% of the people mad. You create monopolies that allow people to charge more than they may be able to otherwise (maybe VG is, maybe they aren't, I don't know). You allow multiple vendors, then you 'polute' the concept, or you have lots of people running around measuring things. Either way, it costs money.

    My Opinion - If it means that we all have the same stuff, then I accept that I may pay more for a sail, boom block, mast etc.. I don't know of any other way to ensure (as best as possible) the one design concept. The suggestions in this thread would all in the end, cost someone money, either in having people run around measuring things, or in technology that somehow ensures quality.

    Anyway, I am on my way out, with my one and only over priced 4 year old class sail to go for a sail, comfortable in the knowledge that the only blame for my painfully humbling placings lies firmly in the hands of the skipper.

    Matt
     
  8. HECS

    HECS New Member

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    Naaaa, an adult male in reasonable condition could adjust the vang downwind okay. And Schiedt won the 2004 Gold medal with an old-style vang with a couple of blocks in (which is what I still use).

    I'm not knocking the turbo set-up. I think it's great because it allows women, kids and other people without the same upper-body strength as an adult male to trim the boat well. All I'mm saying is that most adult males without a turbo kit don't really have to worry.
     
  9. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Come on. He shares none of the blame. In fact he died last year on his 101st doggie birthday>>>
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    So, after having left this board a while back for the greener pastures of the Sailing Anarchy dinghy forums, I thought I'd drop by to see how things are going.

    In the kind of forum I'd like to support, the validity of an opinion would be judged on the basis of whether or not the opinion was well-reasoned, and not based on who posted it or whether or not they registered anonymously.

    Merrily, I have a lot of respect for the volunteer time you are putting in here, but I often find your tone really offensive, and it is making this forum into something that is much less than it might otherwise be.

    Just my personal opinion, worth whatever you want to make of it.
     

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