Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Rob B, Sep 15, 2006.
I find that comment defamatory and libelous and insist that it be deleted.
Hmmm. As you use Ads by Google as one source of income for this forum, you may not always know who are "paid sponsors of the forum". Currently this thread, and the Laser Class Politics section of the forum are displaying a banner ad at the bottom of the page saying..... Sail with Intensity. Ha Ha.
Of course, as that evil troll over at the Sunfish Forum pointed out I am totally clueless when it comes to technology, but if I click on that Sail with Intensity ad wouldn't it generate a small payment from Mr Intensity via Mr Google to Mr Bradley?
Yes, it does, which is why additional links are not allowed. If an advertiser wants to advertise via Google Ads instead of through the forum sponsorship options, the only place the advertiser is allowed to place links is in the google ad itself. Sponsors pay to be a part of the forum and support it, google advertisers are looking for bargain basement placement in TLF's unsold inventory. Any spot on TLF with a Google ad can be purchased directly from TLF and then the sponsorship rules apply instead of the Google Adsence rules. This forum would not be possible without the continued support of major sponsors like APS.
Hmmm... let's see... is it really this easy?
Well, "outing" you outs your dad so we best not do that...
Our frostbiting club agreed last season, after a heated discussion, to let the Intensity sails in for club racing. I bought a radial recently for a practice sail. The price was certainly right (200.00 including shipping) and it was delivered within a day of my order. I've only tried the sail in light winds against other sailors with class legal sails. I found it to be a fine sail and am looking forward to using it in a heavier blow.
The value of sails debate is a common one amongst Laser sailors worldwide. On the UK site there were many views, as here, arguing for a better/more durable sail and also arguing for an open manufacture policy to measurement rules as is common in all the other classes I have raced. I think all of these are misguided - the laser std sail is a great sail for competitive class racing and has no need of improvement. If we are all sailing the same gear racing will be better than if we sail with different gear. The only sensible way forward is for us all to campaign to maintain the status quo and press for a price reduction if you can get one great!
On the price point no one can explain to me why I pay PSE more for a new sail in the UK than if I buy one in the USA and pay for the import costs and duty to do it 'above board'. PSE price for a rolled sail (without battens) is £ 420 which at todays exchange rate is $ 843
PS Can anyone tell me how to change my name on this forum - I never meant to call myself by my e-mail and no I don't represent any commercial interest saimaking or otherwise. Should I declare that I had windsurfing sponsorship in the early 80s from Bic?
To change your member name, write to Bradley at bgreen at sailingforums dot net.
To some extent the issue might be obviously different rather than faster or slower. Somebody with a flashy looking kevlar sail who does well risks having his/her success put down to the flashy sail - even though it makes no difference (in my/this example anyway). Maybe more importantly, those without the magic flashy sail risk putting their lower place down to not having "the sail" - missing the real issues with their performance and thus failing to improve.
It is always easier to blame poor performance on something other than your own capabilities/abilities and flashy expensive looking sails (that make no speed difference) is bound to become an ideal scapegoat.
The problem you are running into here is that this became a thread about relative prices of sails. "Mr. Intensity" posted a list of his prices to rebut a prior comment about sail prices. It was not a commercial post. It was not advertising. Indeed, it added relevant information to a discussion about the pricing monopoly on Laser sails. It also bothers me that it seems that the post would not have been removed if it had not been made by the account that you associate with Intensity Sails.
This forum is only relevant if its members can discuss relevant topics. Such topics will occasionally include information that appears to be commercial, but which, in context, is relevant to the thread. While I appreciate the work you do to maintain and manage this forum, please try not to interfere with relevant discussions unless there is a real need for interference.
I get a bit nervous when a man called Tracy from San Francisco starts talking about "outing" people.
SailChris, there were multiple posts promoting Intensity that were deleted in an obvious attempt to generate business for himself. The price list was not the only post deleted.
Regardless, the price list was not a commercially motivated post and should not have been removed. And, since commercial postings do not seem to be much of a problem here, perhaps a less draconian policy would be more appropriate?
The key word in this sentance is right at the beginning: "if".
IMHO, and with all due respect to Mr. Intensity, I don't believe he has found a way to produce Laser/Radial sails for less money (within a few dollars). Rather, by bypassing the supply chain he has found a way to sell them to the end user for a lot less.
I do not have an Intensity sail and cannot say whether it behaves exactly the same as a class legal sail (and is therefore really a suitable "practice" sail). I've talked to a number of people who have owned the sails, some love them, some don't - sort of a familiar refrain. And I also have a certain amount of anecdotal evidence on Intensity sail "durability" (from discussions with some owners and from this forum) which has yet to convince me they are really more "durable" than class legal sails.
So... I don't think the "if" clause is necessarily true, therefore it isn't quite time to follow the "then" branch.
You are just like Old Geezer, an anonymous poster. Why in the world would you think that your opinion on the running of the forum has any consequence?
So... is this a thread about Intensity Sails vs. North/Hyde or a thread about TLF's terms of service?
Maybe a new thread can be started about the TOS and we can keep this one focused on the sails? It would be easier for me...
I accept that my opinion may be of no consequence to the running of the forum. However, that does not mean I am not entitled to express it.
One fact, and only one fact, entitles me to an opinion on the running of the forum:
I am a user of the forum.
I agree. The Intensity sails do not appear to represent a change in design that would improve durability, but perhaps someone else will come along and design a sail that does. If such a sail were comparable in performance to the current class legal sail, could made in the numbers needed to supply the class, at an acceptable price, then perhaps it should be considered for class approval.
Ther is nothing wrong with the design - it is near perfect. The durability is purely a cloth/cost issue. However if you specify a more durable cloth the characteristics will change. However durable the cloth/design the guys who win will always have new(ish) sails for big events. Stick with the current sail and get a price reduction if you can! (@ 50 % would be about right in the UK as that would match the current US price and we have little or no dealer network to feed - oh excuse me I'm just off to refuel my squadron of flying pigs)
The (lack of) durability in the class sail is from the cloth used, the large scope of acceptable cloth lots and not having a leech cord. All should be dealt with by the class and its rules.
The price of a class sail is separate issue. Everyone knows the retail price of a class sail isn't related to the cost to produce it, just what we are willing to pay for it.
If you're sailing in a class event where membership in the class is required, you should/are required to use a class sail. If you're in an event with no class membership requirements, you should be able to use less expensive equipment (sails/masts/bailers/ect).
Thats the most spot on post on this entire thread, and I think it sums up everything that everyone has tried to say, Gold Star for you!
I have an old sail with a leech cord, it works wonders. I think they should seriously consider adding them, cheap and effective.
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