Intensity sail observations?

Discussion in 'The Dockhouse' started by Rob B, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    Hello -

    I have an 89 Laser that I still consider to be pretty competitive. I have not had to put a whole lot of money into it mostly due to the fact that almost nothing has changed in that time - apart from the control lines - which I finally got this year - Yippee

    Part of the attraction of the boat is that it stays the same - that we all have the same gear and compete on a level playing field - NO Excuses. I would argue that if people start being able to substitute gear a few things will happen:

    1) Some people will spend even more money to have 2 of everything - one legal for the regattas that need that and one illegal for the club races. The only folks that will end up with this setup are those that actually have the time to do both types of regattas.

    2) For the rest of the crowd (those with families/other obligations that can only get out once a week and maybe for one regional regatta), the opportunity cost of two sets of gear is too high - so this group gets left not knowing if it is the gear or the themselves that sits them at the back!

    As soon as people start thinking along those lines, the attraction of the boat is lost - instead of wanting more, of improving based on skill rather than gear, this group would feel that they are better off spending their one free night off playing golf (gagging sound here).

    Now, the otherwise shipshape laser sits in the backyard unused for 10 years until JR says - hey Dad (or Mum) can I use that? To which Dad replies - don't bother - let's hit the links. Another potential sailor lost.

    So yes, it is tempting to say - let's use the cheaper sails and the cheaper masts and the cheaper (insert expensive equipment here). But at what cost? I suggest that cost when measured in lost sailors is too high.

    I have read the threads about this topic over the years - And always come back to the same thing, I got into the boat for the purety of the competition - not to sit there and question my gear.

    So forget about it and sail already!

    My two cents -
    M
     
  2. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    You can buy OEM masts from OptiParts (McLaughlin) in the states right now. So let's hear it, no one using an Intensity illegal sail should have a a problem with different spars after all they are made out of aluminum and look to be the same shape and size. I think they are working on blades as well....Pandora's box is being pried open
     
  3. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Any chance we could get back to the OP's question: "Anyone else notice any differences?" [between the Intensity and Class-legal sails]?
     
  4. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    To get back to the post -

    I have not seen any difference - although I would be interested in someone setting up a test to really figure it out.

    Would need to be in Constant Breeze, Few Waves and No Current. Then have the boats beat for 20 minutes taking readings on speed, heading and if possible wind speed.

    Then switch the skippers, and do it all over again. I suppose you'd need to do this over a variety of conditions to make sure that one sail is not better in one set of conditions over another.

    Not to get too geeky about this, but in order to get anything close to enough data points to be able to conclusively say that there is or there is not a difference, you'd need to use a large number of seperate sails and boats to eliminate all the variables but the sail. I think this process alone would take so long and be so cost prohibitive, that other than anecdotal evidence, any conclusions are purely speculative.

    My (other) 2 cents.

    M
     
  5. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Out of interest, why ? If you found no difference a boat using the sail would still not be a Laser and if you found a difference, all those using it would be unlikely to rush out and buy a class legal sail.


    Ian
     
  6. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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  7. IntensitySails

    IntensitySails Member

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    This is not correct. While our material has a firmer finish, the cut is identical.

    I have been using an intensity full rig sail for 2 years. My finishes are where I deserve to be. I have been up and down. The limiting factor has been my ability. As it should be.
     
  8. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Not really. What's been beat to death is the "shold we use non-class approved stuff" topic.

    What has NOT been discussed is weather or not there is a performance difference between the North/Hyde and Intensity sails. What wold be great would be to have someone like Andrew Campbell or Mark Mandelblatt, (soemone along those lines) try both and share his opinion. Same w/the radial. Lett Anna try one and give her thoughts.

    However, these threads keep getting hijacked by the "it's a crime to allow non-class gear on the laser for ANY reason" crowd.

    Ya'll do what you want and we'll do what we want. You can sleep knowing when we show up at an actual "Laser regatta" or non-home club laser event we'll be 100% legal with the class approved gear.

    It's like this. When I'm in my house I'll do what I want, when I want, (as long as my wife agrees). When I come to your house I'll mind my manners.

    Now, can we get back to the reason this thread was started?
     
  9. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree. You've successfully registered your disapproval. Please stop showing the Search function and also the discussion of whether non-class legal stuff should be allowed. People have a right to discuss this without having the thread hijacked.
     
  10. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    While the two sails may have seams in the same locations, that does not mean the broadseaming and luff curve offsets are identical. (not like you can buy the design, pattern or plotter cut files on the street or can you :rolleyes: )

    The fact that the material is firmer and probably has better stretch numbers (especially bias) then the class approved cloth would suggest that to achieve the same flying shape, the design would have to be different (fuller). If the design/cut was identical, then the flying shape is going to be flatter with the firmer cloth.
     
  11. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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    I am in the a position to comment (for the 5000 th time I will say the same thing) that one is no faster than the other. I have 2 boats both around the same age in the same shape. I have 2 sails both within a month of each other. One is class legal and the other is an Intensity. They are the same, one is not faster or slower than the other. I will do as well with one as I will with the other. The reason for 2 is I used one for practice (hence the reason that the manufacturer calls it a practice sail) and one for racing in regattas where it matters. If I had to choose I would pick the class legal sail if for no other reason than I hate this constant repeating debate. I am not racing lasers this year so I will be using the Intensity and my son will only be using a class legal sail. That way if he does have a good race he will not be whined at because he beat someone who feels they are faster than him.
     
  12. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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    You make some very good points. I would like to point out that if clubs use them because of price (good reason if you have to buy 10-20 sails) then don't allow them in races that you now don't allow your JR. club boats to be raced with the rest of the fleet in my area this would cut the fleet in half.

    By the same token if I say then the JR club boats can use them how can I expect others not to be allowed to use them.

    If I remember back a year or so ago the guy from Intensity mentioned that he tried approaching the class about becoming legal but was shot down. I will let him comment on that if he feels the need.

    I have found that the mix is not a problem and the more boats that we can get on the line the better.

    I would like to point out that I do know that we all want the same thing we just have a different opinion on what would happen to fleets if the sails were allowed to be used in racing even at the club level.
     
  13. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    You beat me to the punch. I actually deleted my post as I don't know anything about what Intensity has or has not done/offered to do and therefore, my comments were completely unfounded and pretty useless really.

    The whole issue is an unsolvable double edged sword - You allow the sails, the JR's are involved, but you may tick off some others. You don't allow the sails, JR's are left out, but others are happy. So.... what to do.

    I didn't really want to continue my involvement in the post as I don't think it will do any good - I'll just live with whatever rules come down either way. I am not nearly good enough to be able to tell the difference.

    I agree with your post and I respectfully withdrawl my post.

    Matt.
     
  14. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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    got it...all will be glad to know that I am finished with this to....
     

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