Intensity sail observations?

Discussion in 'The Dockhouse' started by Rob B, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    This weekend I had a guy tell me that he thought my Intensity sail allowed me to point higher than he could with his class sail. This is a first I've heard of a performance vairience between the two.

    It was very shifty and puffy. I was REALLY playing my vang in the puffs and lulls. Moving my weight forward and aft. Really changing gears to adjust to every puff or lull. I noticed in the lulls I would point 10 degrees higher than him as I sailed up and over him while going to weather. I think I was just changing gears better and he got mad because I passed him on the last leg right at the finish.

    Anyone else notice any differences?
     
  2. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Those conditions (racing, puffy, shifty) are meaningless as far as sail testing to compare one sail against another due to the fact that there are too many variables.

    Real testing needs to be done in very controlled conditions, eliminating as many variables as possible (equal hulls, blades and spars, skippers of the same weight, and hiking ability when the wind is up, similar skill level and obviously steady breeze to name a few)
     
  3. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I agree 100%. I think the guy was just hot about getting passed.
     
  4. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    Fairly simple solution to specific cases like this -- offer to swap gear next weekend; he uses your sail, you use his. Then go out and kick his transom again, so he can learn it's not all about the equipment.
     
  5. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    I think they give an unfair advantage in such conditions because they are cut differently and made of different sail material. ...But that's only my opinion
     
  6. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    It will be interesting to see what kind of discussion if any occurs at our club on this. We have decided to allow these to be used in our club sailing. It's clear they trim differently. I"m not convenced of a speed/pointing advantage.
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Who knows if your sail gave you an advantage or not?

    But by allowing illegal equipment in your club racing you are opening the door to your fellow competitors blaming their losses to you on the fact that you have that illegal equipment. This goes against the whole spirit of Laser sailing. We are all supposed to have the same equipment so that we know who sailed the best on any given day.

    Stop the rot now. What next? OEM masts? Clone foils?
     
  8. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Honestly, if its not the Olympics, Worlds, NA's, district champs, it doesent really matter, go ahead and use the other sails
     
  9. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    These (OEM masts) are available in France (maybe elsewhere). they are about half the price of the Laser legal/official ones. I have no idea how widespread they are (after all, how would most people actually know ?


    Ian
     
  10. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    tell me more about these OEM masts, how are they different? I havent heard of them besides here

    link? pics?
     
  11. pifLeChien

    pifLeChien New Member

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  12. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    nicely done with the sources!

    from what I was able to gather from the one english site, is that they are "school" spars, so I gather that they are tougher, and possibly a harder metal, withstand more abuse, etc..
     
  13. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    Either that or they're designed for entry level laser sailors who won't put half the loads on them that you'd see in competition?
     
  14. Turin Gray

    Turin Gray New Member

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    Here is my observation. I took my intensity sail out for the 1st time this weekend. Finished 4 and 5 in the 2 races out of 14. Last week was using my older class legal sail. Finished 2 and 5th. Same group of guys on the water.
     
  15. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    That's your opinion, based on your program.

    For the majority of others, local sailing, either at the club or district level, is their "Olympic campaign" and as Old Geezer points out above, it has the potential to change the game and that does matter to them.
     
  16. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Currently our laser crowd at our club is fine using the Intensity sails. We are a democracy so if the vote swings to no then its back to the class sails for our club series to keep the peace. That's my opinion anyway. Anything outside our club we don't even try to use the non-class sails or anything else.
     
  17. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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    Has this not been done to death? For god's sake lets move on and let this issue die. For those who have not heard all the arguments use the search function.
     
  18. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Part of me says YES! YES! YES! The rest of me (the good twin) says what better place to vent than TLF?
     
  19. Laser76489

    Laser76489 Member

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    OK well I guess all the voices in my head are all saying the same thing. ( by the way there is way more that just 2 :eek:)
     
  20. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I find it quite an interesting debate as it has wider implications than just sails. I regard it as the "one-design" issue. One of the main factors for me in purchasing a Laser was that it was a "one-design". Thus everybody in the race was on pretty equal terms. I think that most people purchasing a Laser are at least aware that it is a one design with strict rules. Prices for equipment are readily available and anybody buying a boat (new or 2nd hand) can easily find out the cost of any spares and how long different parts are expected to last - thus there are no surprises.


    As a one-design, I personally would wish to be racing against others complying with the one-design rule - not because I'm just fussy, not because I can afford the proper parts (which I cannot always) but because, if I lose to somebody I do not want the "excuse" that they had a better e.g. intensity sail or stiffer Neuphar mast or ... . For me its about competing in as similar boats as reasonably possible. Of course I might have a brand new sail and somebody else a 20 years old sail and that can never be avoided. I see it as the rules keeping people on an equal footing as reasonably practical.


    I think it is a valuable debate that will always be going on. this (and other threads) are about the Intensity sail, though there are other similar threads about JC straps, and other changes people would like (not like) to see.


    I'm with those that regard the Laser as a one-design. If you want more choice of sailmakers (and maybe lower prices) and more capability to modify and tweak your boat then there are other classes well suited to such interests (and budgets).


    Ian
     

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