Idemnification Agreement

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by 49208, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    While looking at the US Sailing prescriptions for life jackets, I came across this:

    Rule 75.3 Add rule 75.3
    75.3 US SAILING prescribes that the organizing authority shall not require a competitor to assume any liabilities of the organizing authority, race committee, protest committee, host club, sponsors, or any other organization or official involved with the event. (This is
    commonly referred to as an ‘indemnification’ or ‘hold harmless’ agreement.)


    Below is a waiver, from a registration form.. Notice what I highlited. I'm the first to admit legalize is a foreign language to me, but it sounds like based on the prescription above, no one has to sign it.

    Am I misreading the prescription ? If not, why bother putting the waiver on the registration form ?


    WAIVER AND RELEASE - In consideration of the acceptance of this entry, I hereby agree that the safety of my boat and her crew, including the decision whether or not to wear life jackets, and the decision whether or not to start or continue to race, is my responsibility and not that of any person sponsoring or undertaking such race. I hereby forever and irrevocably waive, release and discharge any and all claims, liability, loss, or damages, including but not limited to claims for property damage, personal injury or death, which I may have or in the future acquire against xyz Yacht Club, its officers, governors, members, employees, volunteers or agents, arising out of or in any way connected with my participation in any race or other activity sponsored or undertaken by any of them, even though such liability may arise out of their negligence or carelessness. I understand that serious accidents occasionally occur during sailboat racing, and that participants in sailboat racing occasionally sustain mortal or serious personal injuries and/or property damage as a consequence, and I knowingly assume all of the risks of sailboat racing. I agree that this waiver is binding on my heirs, representatives, successors and assigns.
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    NO IT IS NOT indemnification!!!

    THAT WORD IS NO WHERE IN THE USSAILING PROSE.

    THERE IS A VERY GOOD REASON!!!!!

    Never ever sign an agreement that says Indemnification and if the word indemnify appears in any way shape or form cross it out and initial teh crossing out.

    Indemnify means you will take on the liability.

    Don't sign something that has you taking on the liability.

    If you indemnify XYZ organization for the event and XYZ gets sued, you promise to cover their butts .

    Unless you just happen to carry a few billion dollars in insurance and have a very specific insurance policy that lets you go say, "Yeah. I'll be your insurance company for this event," DO NOT SIGN a paper saying you will indemnify.

    Repeat..If you say I will Indemnify this organizatuiion...

    You essentially say, "I am your insurance company."

    AND!!!

    YOU DIDN"T SET A LIMIT!!!!


    Notice how the USSailing standard form DOES NOT use the work indemnify. The word was taken out by USSailing with great publicity describing exactly haht I just wrote above.

    NEVER sign a form that says indemnity agreement.

    NEVER!!!!!

    If you want to do it right, tell the people at the registration desk that their form is causing everybody who signs it to risk everything and almost certainly risk everything totally out of their own pockets and with no help from an insurance company.

    Tell them USSailing says NEVER USE THE WORD INDEMNIFY!!! NEVER!!!

    If some father of 5 year old triplets gets his head smashed in during the regatta...those who have signed the indemnity agrement will be putting the girls through college.

    I am not saying it is bad thing to say "If I play here I will put up my entire life savings and all future earnings right along side you," but I don't think most folks who sign an indemnity agreement realize
    THAT IS EXACTLY what they contracting themselves to do..


    summary: NEVER SIGN AN INDEMNITY AGREEMENT

    finally for those who still don't get it:

    Release and indemnity agreement is another way to write:

    You guys can screw up any way you want and not only will I hold you harmless, I will cover any expenses that might arise from your screw ups and I will use my wallet to cover any and all expenses that might arise from lawsuits or whatever else comes up.

    Or more briefly:

    I am letting you 100% off the hook regardless of what you do. and furthermore, I have your back regardless of how irresponsivly you act..

    DO NOT SIGN AN INDEMNITY AGREEMENT!!!!!


    PS: do not even think about accusing me of hanging on a little technicality that no one would ever use.

    a. if it is just a little technicality and little technicalities matter under the law...I am right.

    b if it is just a silly little technicality and I am overreacting crossing it out doesn't hurt anything either
     
  3. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    I like it better when you swear - I can at least understand you then.. :)

    But I think I understand what you are saying.

    The waiver and release wording that I pasted basically only says:

    "You guys can screw up any way you want and I will hold you harmless"

    It does NOT say I will assume their liability for any screwups..

    Thanks for the lesson
     
  4. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I like it better when no one swears on TLF, and on behalf of youthful Laser sailors and those with delicate sensibilities, thanks to both of you for being good and appropriate citizens. :D
     
  5. Sailingpj

    Sailingpj New Member

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    You don't have to worry about teaching the youth to swear. We all ready know how. Just listen in on any class in a public high school. You will understand.
     
  6. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm aware of that. :eek:

    It's a matter of teaching them to NOT swear. We are setting an example. :cool:
     
  7. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I feel like I just read Grover's, "There's a Monster att the end of this book."

    Do NOT turn the page!!!!
     
  8. lumpy

    lumpy Member

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    This might help explain it to you>
    http://www.marconews.com/news/2008/jul/10/its-law-waiver-liability-generally-enforceable/
     
  9. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Lordy, my boys loved that book when they were little. I've read that out loud a gazillion times!

    Of course, you've got to keep turning the page to keep the little ones happy.
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    You don't have to insult us!!!

    How you gonna hurt our feeling next??? call us grown ups??

    Sheesh...You really know how to ruin a reputation.

    waiver...worhtless paper that won't hold up in court

    Indemnity agreement...probably won't hold up either but if there is enough money to make it worthwhile ..it just mightinspire someone to chase teh deep pocket.

    translation..The more you have to lose, the more practical it is for others to chase it.

    Sincerely??

    Mr Judgement Poof Himself
     
  11. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    :eek: My bad. Of course you are just a kid, Fred. Make that kidder. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Fred,

    You may not have been a classmate of Obama at Harvard Law, but you certainly explained the meaning of 'indemnify' quite clearly.
    Thanks; I always had trouble distinguishing 'liability' from 'indemnification' :confused:.
    Maybe I finally understand....
     
  13. foxy

    foxy Member

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    Fred,

    Its my understanding that "hold harmless" means about the same thing as "indemnify" and is another thing that one should never sign.

    The only thing one should ever agree to is a release of liability.

    When I run across a hold harmless or an indemnification statement, I cross a line through it, initial next to it and write in release from liability. No organizer has ever turned me away after I explain it to them.

    Foxy
     

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