honestly now, what changes do you want to see

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Ross B, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    lets flip the tables here

    if you guys could change absolutly anything on the laser, and lets be kinda serious.... what would you change?

    and lets not be negative, i want to try to accomplish something
     
  2. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    traveler. the traveler could be change to somthing more effecient and does not interfere with the tiller in light air
     
  3. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    I always thought a center traveler would be cool, but that would require actuall change to the deck, fiberglass work, and dunno how the rear trav vs center trav boats would compare, but i'm still open to it

    anyone else?
     
  4. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Longer lastng dacron sail or less expensive one if it lasts as long as the current one. Somethng to keep top sectons from bending/breaking, (not carbon). Blades that don't warp in heat.
     
  5. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    The JC strap is worth pushing. Won't cost more than a few bucks and will make sailing downwind in minimal breeze much more pleasant. No more contorted bodies :mad: and a chance to strategically look around! This has all been stated before in the other thread.
     
  6. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    i love you
     
  7. Rob E

    Rob E Member

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    Changes I'd like to see...anything that makes it faster/easier to rig and de-rig.

    It takes time to assemble the parts and tie all those knots.

    The laser is better than most, but I'd like to get out on the water faster.
     
  8. MasterMike

    MasterMike D22

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    I agree.

    It would also help me to have a small electric powered propeller attached to the hull. It's application would be based on skill level.
     
  9. Cenutrio

    Cenutrio New Member

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    Either improve mast/sail quality or reduce prices by at least 50% (here in Europe a sail costs 600+ euros and a top mast 180+ euros. Both can be ruined in a few hours sailing with 18+ knots.

    JC strap is a good one, credit to Wavedancer.

    Allow to work on the centerboard box, all the noises, water coming in when downwind in brezze, and the angle loss is annoying.

    The traveler stopper moved, so we can sail with more tension without the tiller hitting it.
     
  10. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    most of us seem to have the same veiws to have somthing donewith the traveller and cheeper sail and spars.
     
  11. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Actually, I don't want any changes for a while that could possibly change how we sail the boats. Neithere the traveler change nor the JC strap thrills me as much as it bothers me.
    Reason? The local fleet is the majority of my sailing. When we changed sailcloth it took three eyars to get most of the sailors out there with equal sails again. Then North took over from Haarstick and we had a few more years of two types of sail that sailed at two different speeds.
    Now we have about 50% of the fleet using teh new rigging. Probably 75% will have the new rig this year but only a few of us will have the boom sleeve.
    A new raveler or hold the boom out gizmo will not improve racing but it will once again make the boats different.

    Sorry. I don't look foreword to those changes at all.


    BUT!! I would love to see a simple innovation for the reduction of top mast breakage.

    If we put a shelf inside the lower mast, the collar and rivet would be unnecessary. I believe a bolt could be placed in the back of the lower section tapped through a biscuit inside the mast. The top mast lower plug could simply sit on that biscuit. The collar could simply sit at the top of the lower section and it would probably need nothing to hold it in place. If the collar had a tendency to float up and out of the lower section, it could be held in place by tape, glue or even a tiny fastener.
    Thgis would change nothing in the performance of the boat except breakage would be less of a problem.
     
  12. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    well gouvernail, cheaper sails dose not nesessarily mean we have to change the type of sail. its up to the class to say, "if you dont lower the price of these sails we will take are business somewheres else" or cutt out the middle man and dont have the stupid class button on the sails.

    3" alluminuim tubing goes for $1.00 per foot plus tax with nothing done two it so why the hell are we payin like two hndred for different mast sections?

    maybe we wont do aything to the rigging just yet wait for everyone to get back on the same page but the cost of sails and spars needs to go down, im only a high school student and i have to pay for anything to do with sailing and its linda hard whne im only making 8.25 an hour.
     
  13. sorosz

    sorosz Member

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    Gouv, you're spot on about the change that should be made to the top section. I seem to recall that someone had a preliminary design for something just like that several years ago in the days of the Laser e-mail list.

    This idea seems like it should be a no brainer since it would allow the end for ending of top sections, you wouldn't have a weak point from the collar rivet hole and therefore wouldn't have to worry about aligning the rivet. I also doubt it could be more expensive when you consider manufacturing time needed to attach the collars currently. You could actually cut the plastic tooling needed to just two pieces now instead of three since the end plug would be used twice and you wouldn't need the connector sleeve (collar) or connector plug. Retail, you're looking at about $11.10 in plastic parts on the upper section compared to $22.50 currently. I would think that this new "shelf" fitting shouldn't cost much more than the $16.95 retail that the current connector sleeve (ie collar) and plug cost. And even if it costs a bit more it should be worth it, if it cuts down on breaking upper masts.

    When they started all the talk about the carbon top sections I was surprised that the designs all seemed to include a collar in some fashion (either molded in or attached). Wouldn't making just a plain tube and capping the ends be easier, cheaper and better?

    If there is any change made to the class in the near future, I think that this should be at the top of the list since it's relatively simple, inexpensive and would promote the longevity of the equipment (fewer broken uppers and torn sails) while it wouldn't affect performance and make old equipment obsolete and shouldn't be significantly more expensive than what we have now. Since the class rules already permit end for ending spars this might not even need a class rule change to do, the manufacturers could just make the new piece and start shipping. . .
     
  14. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    If I am not mistaken, the class is the middle man.

    I don't think so! This cannot be the same quality as the laser masts.
    If you find marine quality tubing you can order the length, add the three pieces of plastic and - even while you did not buy an official laser mast - no one will ever find out, nor will it give you any advantage.

    We have all been there. It is not impossible to sail on a tight budget. It will in fact make you appreciate your boat much more and will lead to better care of your gear and boat. I hate to see wealthy kids get a boat from their parents and they just leave it sitting at the club all winter with the sail still on it. When you have to work hard to make sailing possible in the first place, you will take much better care of your belongings...
    Laser sailing can be done on a budget and you do not need a new sail every year if you only use it at the major events and take good care of it. Of course, I would also like to see the price go down, but since - at least I think this is the case - the class is financed through the sale sails, I am not so sure whether that is possible.

    Georg
     
  15. Cenutrio

    Cenutrio New Member

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    There are people out there fit, young and knowledgble enough to try an olympic campaign. Poor quality build is an issue, you need 3-4 sails, plus 2-3 top sections/season, this is a problem.

    Not for Robert Scheidt, but for sure for the grown ups who want to be the next big guy on the fleet.


    I nature my boat as it was a girlfriend, but a new top section won't resist me an hour sailing in a 18 knot breeze.

    This is a sad fact, and something to blame the constructors and indeed, the fleet for tolerating. The sail will be useless too.
     
  16. markg

    markg New Member

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    For me it's quicker rigging and derigging.
    I had the pleasure of rigging and sailing a Byte recently. In case ya dont know - the mast stays up and the sail is raised on a halyard and zips around the mast. This is a one person job and takes seconds. Fitting the sail like a sock over the mast is just silly ! Also with the Byte, the cunningham and outhaul virtually stay fitted to the boat.
    Rigging and de-rigging really takes minutes. No knots - its all done with shackles.

    One of the few things i dislike about laser sailing is derigging after an exhausting sail. Undoing knots with cold and wet hands, lifting the mast out.

    Thats my suggestion.

    Oh i just noticed this,
    (Ian Bruce put his 18 years of experience with the Laser into the development of the Byte. Just to name a couple of improvements: the Byte has a zippered main that can be lowered at the dock without taking the mast out of the boat)
    http://www.onedesignplus.com/boats/byte.asp


    Seems like its not my suggestion at all !
     
  17. Josef

    Josef New Member

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    More durable and cheeper sails, thats about it =p
     
  18. Eddie

    Eddie New Member

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    Anyone ever thought of having a one piece mast?
     
  19. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    It would be too difficult to travel with, store and expensve to ship with new boats as they would not fit in the laser box.
     
  20. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    this is true

    but i think most every other boat on the planet finds a way to manage

    and maybe then we could find a way to get rid of the sail sleeve/sock
     

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