Heart Rate Monitor

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by rippa, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. rippa

    rippa Member

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    Does rule 22 allow the use of a heart rate monitor during racing? (Watch Kontides interview at 00:44 and 03:24.)
     
  2. Jaap Schellekens

    Jaap Schellekens New Member

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    I think not given the simple fact that everything electronic that is not mentioned is not allowed.. ... But I do use one but make sure I cannot see it during a race so I cannot have any advantage form it (if at all possible). Always nice to see afterwards that a day Laser racing is similar in calories burned as running a marathon....
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  3. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    A link to that interview would be nice :rolleyes:

    But anyway, this is a grey area. The rules say "Any use of electronic equipment not specifically allowed in the rules is prohibited unless modified in the sailing instructions." Does "use" cover plain recording of data with which you don't do anything during the race itself? (And I think it's not even entirely clear if this applies only to the boat, and not the sailor.)
     
  4. rippa

    rippa Member

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    Sorry, hope this works:
     
  5. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Watched this and a couple other recent videos of Pavlos. Doesn't say anything about heart rate measurement.
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    My personal opinion s a former IM for the class is that it is not grey at all. The heart rate monitor is collecting data, it is in use and hence illegal. Just because you don't look at the data until later on is not a valid argument for saying it is not in use.
     
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  7. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    People in the background are wearing them.
     
  8. rippa

    rippa Member

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    Many compass watches allowed under 22(d) have a heart rate monitor connection function as well and thus make it possible to illegally check heart rate while racing.
    Maybe one should not take off his rash vest under the watchful eye of the Executive Secretary Emeritus ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  9. Alex/Steve

    Alex/Steve Member

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    I sailed a masters event a few years back with one sailor a severe Diabetic. His Laser came with, and my memory lapses, either a unit that reported to shore that he had stopped moving and required rescue, or a unit that reported blood sugar to shore.

    Seemed to me to be a great idea to allow all to have a go

    Steve
     
  10. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Damn I feel stupid for not noticing at first! Anyway, the facts are: 1) It's a fairly small part of the boat park that we see, and for three min only, and there are two of these things visible. It's unlikely they were the only ones in use in that fleet. 2) The guys wearing them show them openly - they didn't have to take their shirts off right there for everyone (including the measurers!) to see. 3) It's a World Championship regatta, so if these things are checked anywhere at all, it's here. On the other hand, things like clearly illegal control systems have been allowed at this level before. But at the very least, those guys wearing their straps obviously genuinely believe that they're not doing anything questionable.
     
  11. Jaap Schellekens

    Jaap Schellekens New Member

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    Interesting to note that most of today's heart rate monitors come equipped with a build in gps.... very hard to get one without. only the very low end do not have that and i would not expect these guys to have something low end ...
     
  12. Jan van Haarst

    Jan van Haarst New Member

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    So according to the rules, use of onboard camera's and GPS trackers is also illegal.
    This means that the last Olympics were in violation as well :


    I would think that having electronics on board that aren't used during the race should be allowed.
     
  13. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    No. Repeat class rule 22(b): "Any use of electronic equipment not specifically allowed in the rules is prohibited unless modified in the sailing instructions."

    Rio SI 19.1.7 actually required them: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/Rio2016SIs-[20836].pdf
     
  14. Jan van Haarst

    Jan van Haarst New Member

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    So the organisers of a race can decide what is allowed in that race ?
     
  15. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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  16. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    They have also never had sail numbers at the Olympics and they are mandatory. Here has never been a class legal Laser at the Olympics including going back to 1996 in Atlanta.
     
  17. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Same with most Youth Worlds that I've seen. The rationale behind it is that if there's only one boat from each country, the national letters is all you need to identify them. How that works legally I don't know.

    But Alan, what's your take on people openly showing equipment that you think is illegal, at a World Championship? What do you think happened here? Just sloppy rule enforcement, an actual interpretation allowing them, or something else?
     
  18. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    My guess is no one wanted to make waves and protest.
     
  19. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Sloppy enforcement. Part of the issue when I was doing the job was that all the other IMs were also IJs,. For that reason I didn't get any gigs outside Aus/NZ, as it they didn't want to pay to get someone to regattas whose main role finished before the regatta started. However the IJs aren't interested in policing the class rules on the water or the boat park. From my observations you could tell a competitor to change something and the would, but they would change it back by the time they reached he start line and really you can only protest someone if they raced with something illegal.

    It's also not helped by someone like Jean Luc whose first language is not English, so there is an issue with rule interpretation. Paul Milson the previous World Measurer was very inconsistent with his application of the rules, but people jumped when he said illegal.

    I also suppose other factors have come into play, such as the higher stakes involved being an Olympic Class and hence more money to be made even just by getting Olympic selection, coaches, etc. The availability of technology, the seeming availability of illegal equipment both replica stuff, but also the electronics etc.
     

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