Harken Kicker and a new Website

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by UK Laser Sailor, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. UK Laser Sailor

    UK Laser Sailor Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Couple of thing seem to have happened of late at LP. Or it's old new and l am slow out the blocks.

    1) New website
    They have put a new look website live. Gives you very little info on LP as a company. Also the range of boats shown varies depending on the region pick. What l found very telling was if you pick "Australia and Southern Pacific" you can very details on the Laser. If l remember correct, picking this region on the old website used to only show details on the "Dart" range of cats.

    2) Harken Kicker
    Based on the website of one of the UK dealers, LP seem to be playing around with the blocks supplied with the Harken kicker. No details on this on LP website l can find. Not hear anything about it anywhere else.
    Read the details tab. Here are the links:

    Old style: http://www.sailboats.co.uk/laser-harken-vang-complete-system-xd-12653

    New: http://www.sailboats.co.uk/laser-harken-vang-complete-system-xd
     
  2. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The top blocks are free anyway. Looks like they have changed to use the latest Harken offering rather than the metal blocks. I have these new style blocks on my current boat, they are the business and look great as well as function perfectly.

    The only part they cannot change is the bottom assembly.
     
  3. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes, the class rules say that you can't "modify" the vang cleat block "in any way". But now, Harken has changed the composite cleat to an aluminium one. Would it be an illegal "modification" to do it yourself, to your existing cleat block?
     
  4. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That would be allowed. I am pretty sure you can put any cleat that fits on the mounting centres without modification (tapping and re-drilling).

    The cleat is an expendable part to a certain extent although my Harken vang had 5 years or so or regular hard use and the cleat was perfectly fine.
     
  5. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That would, of course, make great sense. However, while that is what is clearly and specifically allowed for the cunningham and outhaul cleats, the vang rule just shows pictures of the allowed vang cleating fittings, and forbids any change to them.
     
  6. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Alan D might chime up if he still lurks here but i am pretty sure as long as the cleat was a direct replacement then it would be fine.
     
  7. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think the key is "builder supplied", which in this case is the metal bracket base assembly. It has standard hole pattern for the cleat, and numerous vendors make cleats that fit. IMHO, the cleat would not qualify as "builder supplied".
     
  8. opT

    opT New Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Almost everyone I sail against has changed that cleat to aluminum already, never been a problem or an issue brought up.
     
  9. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It is not your decision or your mates.

    If you read 3.d.x.a. you'll see that the whole fitting "builder supplied" and that it incorporates "turning points" and a clam cleat. 3.d.x.c also states that "the fitting shall not be modified in any way". So this implies that the cleats are dealer supplied and that you can only change like for like. When you compare this to the deck cleat system, it's only the deck cleat base that is dealer supplied and the cleats you use are your own choice.

    This is one specifically for Jean Luc. But I would definitely hesitate in letting a boat through where the cleats had been changed. If however builders are now supplying the metal cleats instead of the composite cleats then this will mean that the metal cleats are permitted. So you could change from the supplied composite cleats to the supplied metal cleats, IMO. Again I say this is a decision for Jean Luc to make, not me and not you guys.
     
  10. opT

    opT New Member

    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    No change in rules with the new builder-supplied metal cleats? If it's not a problem now then it must not have been in the past.

    All I am saying is Jean Luc either thinks it is not against the rules, or just does not care - he has personally checked over my equipment multiple times with no comments on the vang - even though an alum cleat stands out to a degree.
     
  11. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    • Any change by a supplier needs to be approved by the ILCA technical committee. So it may well have been a problem before, but the ILCA technical committee may have permitted the change.
    • Just because Jean Luc has checked your boat over multiple times does not mean that he has necessarily seen anything that he would say was illegal. All measurers, from Jean-Luc down to a local club measurer will pick up different things. When you have a queue of 300 boats going through measurement in 2 days, you given 3 minutes per boat with people interrupting you, to find nearly an infinite number of illegal alterations, you're going to miss a lot of things.
    • Unless you see Jean-Luc when he's not under pressure and specifically show him something you've done or want to do, show him the rules (noting that English is not his first language) and then ask whether it is legal, then it doesn't count as being legal and even then he should run it past the technical committee.
     

Share This Page