Frostbite gear

B

baddogmd

New Member
Help me with my research into the best gear for frostbiting. Is a dry suit required and the best comfort and fit for laser sailing? Wetsuit? Or some combo of Hikers and dry suit? I could really use soem advice before I spend a mint on the wrong stuff and be disappointed (i.e. cold and wet):D
 
You have to tell us the conditions (at least water and air temps) that you are looking to gear up for.

Also, search the threads here, we've covered a lot of ground on this in the past.
 
Sorry. Potomac River in Maryland. I just bought a Laser. I used to frostbite 470's all winter in Chicago, but you never went for a swim. I'll check the threads as well. I have tons of paddling gear I would like to use if possible, but they are not one piece dry suits but split at the waist for the kayak "skirt". I hoping it will work as I would prefer NOT to have to deal with a one piece dry suit.
Thanks
 
baddogmd said:
Sorry. Potomac River in Maryland. I just bought a Laser. I used to frostbite 470's all winter in Chicago, but you never went for a swim. I'll check the threads as well. I have tons of paddling gear I would like to use if possible, but they are not one piece dry suits but split at the waist for the kayak "skirt". I hoping it will work as I would prefer NOT to have to deal with a one piece dry suit.
Thanks
Click to expand...

More than half of the PRSA (Potomac River Sailing Association) Laser frostbiters wears a dry suit. But there are a few with wet suits appropriate for the water temps (currently around 40 F). In fact, there are some who swear that wet suits give them greater mobility, compared to dry suits. Your paddling gear may work just fine; hard for me to judge, not being a kayaker.

Come on down to the Washington Sailing Marina and join us on Sundays at noon. The frostbiting is low key and you don't even have to bring your boat. As long as you share RC duty you can try out your gear sailing somebody else's boat when that person takes a break.
 
I also kayak (whitewater) and sometimes my paddling gear crosses over to sailing. If you have a pair of neoprene shorts or pants, you can put the inner tunnel of a kayaking semi-dry top inside the neoprene and then snug the outer tunnel over the outside of the neoprene and get a sealed fit as if it were fitted to a spray skirt. It's pretty water tight, so long as you can snug the outer tunnel of the top to the outside of the neoprene shorts/pants. Another trick I learned is to wear your pfd inside your spary/dry top (so long as the top is roomy enough) and you'll create a nice insulating air pocket between your base layer and the outer wear top that will help you stay warm and create a good wind barrier.

If you're ever in Texas, check out San Marcos's Rio Vista park. It's a great whitewater park with fun slides/waves and downstream a little ways are some excellent drops. And all are easily re-runnable. :cool:

baddogmd said:
I have tons of paddling gear I would like to use if possible, but they are not one piece dry suits but split at the waist for the kayak "skirt". I hoping it will work as I would prefer NOT to have to deal with a one piece dry suit.
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Be careful! I used to sail in a wetsuit in similar conditions and colder. I capsized a couple of times without ever falling in the water. Then one day an unexpected storm hit us. I capsized downwind and turtled. I had some problems and had to swim around the boat, but managed to right the boat. However, I already got really cold and immediately capsized again. A crash boat now helped me, but I still had to sail back. I felt really clumsy and had difficulty sailing the boat. I was really glad all of us made it safely back into the harbor, some boats with missing rudders and bend masts.
It took me an hour to warm up again. I must have been close to hypothermia. The next day I bought a drysuit.
A wetsuit is not good enough, unless it is really thick (at least 6mm), but that would limit your movemenst a lot. A drysuit is expensive, but worth your life! One should always be prepared for these cirmcumstances. Mostly we stay safely on the boats and a wetsuit is fine, but sooner or later you will go for a swim in water that is close to freezing. The question is then: is your suit good enough to stay warm when you fall in?

Sail on!

Georg
 
In the early 90's I sailed collegiately at UW-Madison in double-handed dinghies and lasers and I used a two piece drysuit. In fact, surprisingly, I can remember that it was a Stohlquist--designed for paddling. I would say your dry suit is absolutely good enough for this season--particularly to just cut your startup costs. Practically, what I found was that the roll of rubber around my waist was not the perfect fit for the movement dinghy sailing entails. After some roll tacking and hiking, it felt like a t-shirt that untucked from my jeans and was bunched inside a tucked in oxford. I did find that it would unroll a bit, but never got so bad as to lose it's seal. Though I did worry about that. You may want to find some way to clip it or secure it so you don't get the unrolling that i did.

My guess is during this season, you'll likely find that your race mates in one piece suits have a bit more of the perfect suit for frostbiting. When you jump on the committee boat for a rest or are rigging/derigging with the suit on, it is easier to unzip a one-piece and tie the arms around your waist than it is to unroll and take off a two piece top. Double the convenience for potty breaks.

As far as dry vs. wet suits is concerned, windsurfing pulled me away from sailing and I sold my laser for a shortboard and sails (gonna take some heck from y'all on that, I think). As a result though, I've windsurfed as early as Easter (in April) and as late as November in full wetsuits in WI, VT, and NC. Currently, I have a full dry that is wetsuit (neoprene) from the waist down and typical drysuit (baggy) from the waist up. From this experience I have learned that you'll be more comfortable on the boat in a drysuit and will be safe in the water for reasonable periods of time. A dry allows you much more full range of motion and less weight. Though, when you go in the water, you'll feel the colder temp. sooner through the baggy stuff than you do through the neoprene which is a better thermal barrier. That changes once the cold water starts to seep in the ankle, wrist, and neck gaskets. You'll have to go elsewhere for the scientific answer on which is better if you're in the water for a long time. With my current suit, my legs stay toasty when I fall in, but I get that shocking chill that comes with getting dunked in my upper body. It is manageable with the right layers underneath. I'usually fine with a thin wicking layer and one fleece layer up top.

This is an interesting question for me to discuss as I want to get back into laser racing an will this winter and spring if I can find frostbiting close by. My plan would to be just to keep my combo drysuit, because I still like it for windsurfing, but I know a full dry would be better for sailing. I wouldn't get a full baggy dry unless I decided racing would be my primary sport, which it isn't. Yet!
 
Since this thread turned to drysuits, I might as well add my question here.

I've looked at drysuits and they are damn expensive. Whats the consensus on second hand drysuits, worth buying? Anything to look at in particular when inspecting a second hand suit?
 
Tub-O-Lard said:
Since this thread turned to drysuits, I might as well add my question here.

I've looked at drysuits and they are damn expensive. Whats the consensus on second hand drysuits, worth buying? Anything to look at in particular when inspecting a second hand suit?
Click to expand...

Yes, up until the past couple of years or so, all drysuits used a latex "gasket" or seal at the neck, hands, feet. These will dry out and "rot" eventually, anywhere from 2 to 6 years depending on how they were treated - so make sure when looking at a used suit that you look closely at the condition of the latex. You can buy and replace the seals, or pay someone to do it for you, but it's not exactly cheap. Also look closely at the seam tape that is on the inside of the suit, making sure it's not lifting off anywhere.

Zippers usually last the life of the suit if maintained (rinsed and lubed after use)
 
Ditto on what 49208 says. I think you can find a real deal if you get one that has been well taken care of. I sold mine after three years and it was in great shape. It went for 100 or 120 bucks.

The wear you're most worried about is the neck, wrist, and ankle gaskets. If these look like fresh rubber, that is a good sign. I would stretch them with your hands a bit and look for aging cracks if they are there. If there are, or any tears, don't buy it. You can replace the gaskets, but it is a hassle.

Turn the suit inside out and look at the tape on the seams and the coating on the inside of the nylon shell. If any of the tape or coating is delaminating and looks flaky, then you have a suit starting to go on it's way out. If not, you've got a good one.

As far as fit, try it on with the clothes you would wear under it and make sure it feels the way you want. Try squatting like you would while sailing etc. The other important thing to consider about fit is how the gaskets fit your neck, wrists, and ankles. With a new suit this is not an issue because they will all be very small and can be trimmed. With a used one, if you happen to buy one from someone who had bigger wrists, ankles, or neck than you, you could be unlucky enough to find that they trimmed the gaskets to a circumference that is too big for you and they will leak. It is ok if they gaskets feel too tight. The have little rings around them if you look closely that you can trace with a sharp carpet knife or scissors to get a comfy fit. Careful though, it is tedious, and go one ring at a time so you don't cut them too big.

If you look at full neoprene dry suits, the biggest issue there is tired rubber. If it doesn't seem very stretchy anymore, it will be restrictive when you sail. I also believe the upperbodies are formed for windsurfing where your arms are out in front of you almost all the time. You'd likely fight the rubber in the shoulders when sheeting in etc. Finally, most windsurfers pee in full neoprene suits. In good conscience, I'd never sell one of mine for that reason.
 
How does one go about replacing the gaskets on an old one-piece drysuit? I have a Henri Lloyd from my college sailing days and am interested in fixing it rather than purchasing new. Is it expensive? Where do you go for new gaskets? (I suppose I should try it on and make sure I'm not heavier than those days...that was a good 13 years or so ago) :eek:
 
It is a piece of cake to replace latex seals. I have replaced mine on my paddling gear at least 6 or 7 times over the years. The latex seals can be purchased at any Kayak supply store or on-line. They come with full instructions, but basically you just pull off the old one, slap a bead of "Aquaseal" and glue on a new one. You can make a simple form out of cardboard to insure a great fit. The whole process takes about 20 mins a seal + drying time (overnight).

You can also send in your suit and have NRS do it. http://www.nrsweb.com/repair/Repair.asp

Good luck but you have nothing to fear.
 
You can find the pricing of replacement seals here:
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e1681.asp

I would also suggest the Cotol 240 to speed up the cure time.

I found replacing the neck seal to be a pain in the neck the first two. FOr the third one I made a simple cone shaped form, made it much easier.

Before replacing the seals on a 13 year old suit, I would carefully check the seam tape to make sure it's not pulling off either. If it's showing signs, I would toss it...
 
The "simple cone form" 49208 suggests is a great idea and I'll bet will really make the job easy and cut down on curse words. The cone would probably make trimming it to size much easier too.
 
Much appreciated. I've just spent some time on-line searching for some great hiker shorts for the summer--so many brands! It's overwhelming. I found a dealer in MA, though, who carried SEA brand--I think someone on this thread recommended them. Do either of you prefer particular brands, or is it just a matter of what one gets used to?
 
Great question. I've never owned any and will be in the market. I'm interested to see what answers you get to this one.
 
I think you'll be very happy you went with the drysuit. I sail with the Newport laser fleet and much perfer my wetsuit to a drysuit, as I have found that it is easier to move in a wetsuit. However, if you have the unfortunate luck of dumping early in the day, you'll be cold by the end. The wetsuit does a great job for awhile, but eventually the wind will cool off the drysuit and subsequently the water will cool off giving you very cold sailing. Wetsuits are great as long as the wind temp's are up!!!
 
Salty said:
Much appreciated. I've just spent some time on-line searching for some great hiker shorts for the summer--so many brands! It's overwhelming. I found a dealer in MA, though, who carried SEA brand--I think someone on this thread recommended them. Do either of you prefer particular brands, or is it just a matter of what one gets used to?
Click to expand...
Search the threads - some good search words would be
hiking SEA pants

Also, go to the NALaser.org site and look thru the 2004 or 2005 issues of The Laser Sailor - there was one issue with a decent review of the different brands - the best thing I recall in that article was the sizing differences...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top