Forestay attachment

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by Steve Graybill, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Steve Graybill

    Steve Graybill New Member

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    Any one know which hole on the bow stem plate that the fore stay / roller furling jib should attach to?

    Bought my capri 14.2 2 years ago, used, and it was attached to the back hole. I have all ways had a lot of weather helm in 15 + mph winds. I will try moving it to the forward hole. I had already raked the mast as far forward as the rigging would allow.
     
  2. boat

    boat Member

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    This is a tough question for me to answer (not that anyone cares…) my approach is to tune the rigging so that the sail plane compliments the underwater profile of the sailing craft you are using. To me, the builders’ recommendations are just that –recommendations. No two boats are 100% identical. It takes the understanding and skills of the Captain to tune the rigging to maximum performance for the specific charities and conditions the boat will be expected to perform under.


    With that said, A weather helm can usually be corrected by adjustments of the sails to include every adjustment possible to the main as well as the head sail. Perhaps the correct position of the fore-stay will help but the bottom line is understanding how the sails work with respect to the hull/center board/keel, the wend speed, the pressure on the helm the desired heading, etc. As I am sure you already understand there are countless little details that go into boat performance.


    No, I am not questioning anyone’s sailing knowledge except mine! I can’t provide a specific answer due to my lack of knowledge; I can only point out the complexities of understanding the total sailing experience. 70 years of sailing and I still can’t understand anything…

    Let us know what you figure out - good luck!
     
  3. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    Vagabond 14 (similar size and style)
    Had opposite issue of lee helm if I had the jib up.
    Raked the mast some and it helped a bit, but I got more effect by moving weight forward. I finally got it adjusted for slight weather helm with me sitting about halfway between the mast and the transom. (where all the lines are pretty easy to reach and I don't have to use the tiller extension much.)

    I'm not sure about the spacing of the Capri's holes on the bow chainplate. The Vagabond's are just 1 inch apart and I've seen no difference based on which I use, so I normally use the forward one. I use the aft one with a block and the jib halyard to raise the mast.
     
  4. boat

    boat Member

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    Fhhuber has touched on a great point which I failed to mention (please accept old age as an excuse…) If you will move your buns fore and aft while attempting to hold a constant course into the wind you will find that it has a great deal to do with the overall balance of the craft as does the distribution of any stored items such as batteries. The more the boat heels the more the effect of the weight distribution. Consider the AOA (angle of attack) of the keel. As you move weight to the stern the vessel will tend to come up; weight to the bow will cause the vessel to point down. This is because of the way the keel/center board addresses the water. With the bow low the keel will tend to point away from the wind (assuming you are sailing up wind). The inverse is true when weight is moved aft. Weight on the bow forces the bow down which means the keel is pointing toward the downwind side of the boat. This will cause the boat to fall off. Give it a try Thomas… Remember that the boat is typically heeled which accentuates the effect. If the mast is pointing straight up fore and aft weight has little effect on the tendency of the boat to point more up wind or down wind. But then if the mast is straight up who cares; you are likely dead in the water!


    Try this simple experiment the next time you go out to sail. Set the sails for maximum performance with minimum rudder load. Now, without adjusting anything move your weight fore and aft and see how it affects the path of the boat as well as the pressure on the rudder. This should demonstrate the point I am attempting to make.


    Obviously the position of the mast and the setting of the sails must be used primarily for keeping the boat on course but the distribution of weight must be a major consideration. This is especially true in a small boat. This rule also applies to larger vessels but to a lesser extent. In a 40 ton sail boat weight distribution does make a difference but it takes a lot more weight to make a meaningful change in the balance of the boat. One of the things I feel is really great about small boats is the fact that the Capitan as well as the crew can make a major difference by moving their weight just inches in either direction. If you talk to those who consistently win big races you will find that the position of any weight has a large effect on the success of a race.


    I am sure I will think of other factors once someone brings them up but for now I must say that thinking about sailing with snow on the ground is far less attractive than the glass of wine I just pored.


    Thanks fhhuber for pointing out this obvious omission on my part!;)
     
  5. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    I got a bit extreme in moving weight... I have a `120 amp-hr trolling motor battery stuffed as far forward in the under deck storage as possible...
    But I have a 2.5 hp 4-stroke outboard hanging on the transom (which was probably the cause of my lee helm)
     
  6. boat

    boat Member

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    Yep, you are probably right. One of the tricks I used for years was to put a inclineometer (sp???). This is the device that is typically used to indicate how far your boat is heeled. If you place it in the right orientation you can see if the boat is flat or heavy on the bow or stern. Kind of a silly thing but if you can't feel the fore and aft trim of the boat this instrument will provide a lot of insight. Normally, I like to sail with the fore and aft balanced which makes the boat set flat in the water. This has nothing to do with how the boat is heeling, just fore and aft balance. Taking the boat off balance fore and aft is sometimes an advantage. Give it a try and see how your speed and handling is affected. You will find some interesting points to discuss over a couple of fingers of scotch...
     
  7. Steve Graybill

    Steve Graybill New Member

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    I have decided that the front larger hole is for a painter or hauling out. The middle hole is for the fore stay and back hole for the jib. Got a newer C14 and it has hank on jib and allows more adjustment. I am now able to adjust for weather / lee helm.

    Thanks for the philosophy tho.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  8. Craig Rees

    Craig Rees New Member

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  9. Craig Rees

    Craig Rees New Member

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    As long as you're talking about forestays. Can I ask this. With a boat stored outside for many years. (In FL) Not been in the water since possibly 1989? How can you tell if the forestry & the 2 shroud plates still have their strength in the fiberglass?
     
  10. Steve Graybill

    Steve Graybill New Member

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    Take them apart, and inspect them for corrosion. Mine are thru bolted.
     
  11. Craig Rees

    Craig Rees New Member

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    I'm sorry, maybe I was not clear. It's the fiberglass strength I'm asking about. Do you think the fiberglass could get brittle or lose its strength over time? Enough that the chain plates or jib plate could pull through the fiberglass?
     
  12. Steve Graybill

    Steve Graybill New Member

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    I don't think fiberglass goes bad.
     
  13. Craig Rees

    Craig Rees New Member

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    A fiberglass boat can get soft spots. It's always something to check when you are going to purchase a used boat. Large sailboats that are cradled & hauled out of the water are inspected for soft spots in the hull.
     

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