First crappy day and I'm ready to move

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Merrily, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I have no idea about the US taxation level. I find French income tax somewhat lower than UK income tax. However, I guess a lot depends on where you get your income from and how much you earn. But what happens over the next few years might change a lot. Both the US and France have pretty significant national debts (US worse than France but both need addressing). France has delayed getting its national debt back into balance until 2012 but I don't think the US has set and dates. Another major difference is personal debt. Compared to the UK (which I think is similar to the UK), France does not run on personal debt like the UK. Credit Cards are not the norm (most cards are debit cards which take the money straight from your bank account).

    Another consideration is the cost of living in France (which I find a lot lower than in the UK).

    Have we drifted a bit "off-topic" here (and do others mind) ?

    Ian
     
  2. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Oh, well that's easy then:

    1. Royalties arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

    2. Such royalties may also be taxed in the Contracting State in which they arise and according to the laws of that State, but if the beneficial owner is a resident of the other Contracting State, the tax so charged shall not exceed 5 percent of the gross amount of the royalties.

    3. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 2, royalties described in subparagraph (a) of paragraph 4 that arise in a Contracting State and are beneficially owned by a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in that other State.

    4. The term "royalties" means:
    (a) payments of any kind received as a consideration for the use of; or the right to use, any copyright of literary, artistic, or scientific work or any neighboring right (including reproduction rights and performing rights), any cinematographic film, any sound or picture recording, or any software;
    (b) payments of any kind received as a consideration for the use of; or the right to use, any patent, trademark, design or model, plan, secret formula or process, or other like right or property, or for information concerning industrial, commercial, or scientific experience; and
    (c) gains derived from the alienation of any such right or property described in this paragraph that are contingent on the productivity, use, or further alienation thereof.
    5. The provisions of paragraphs 1, 2, and 3 shall not apply if the beneficial owner of the royalties, being a resident of a Contracting State, carries on business in the other Contracting State, in which the royalties arise, through a permanent establishment situated therein, or performs in that other State independent personal services from a fixed base situated therein, and the royalties are attributable to such permanent establishment or fixed base. In such case the provisions of Article 7 (Business Profits) or Article 14 (Independent Personal Services), as the case may be, shall apply.

    6. (a) Royalties shall be deemed to arise in a Contracting State when the payer is a resident of that State.
    (b) Where, however, the person paying the royalties, whether he is a resident of a Contracting State or not, has in a Contracting State a permanent establishment or a fixed base in Connection with which the liability to pay the royalties was incurred, and such royalties are borne by such permanent establishment or fixed base, then such royalties shall be deemed to arise in the State in which the permanent establishment or fixed base is situated.
    (c) Notwithstanding subparagraphs (a) and (b), royalties paid for the use of,; or the right to use, property in a Contracting State shall be deemed to arise therein.
    (d) Royalties shall be deemed to be paid to the beneficial owner at the latest when they are taken into account as expenses for tax purposes in the Contracting State in which they arise.

    7. Where, by reason of a special relationship between the payer and the beneficial owner or between both of them and some other person, the amount of the royalties, having regard to the use, right, or information for which they are paid, exceeds the amount which would have been agreed upon by the payer and the beneficial owner in the absence of such relationship, the provisions of this Article shall apply only to the last-mentioned amount. In such case the excess part of the payments shall remain taxable according to the laws of each Contracting State, due
    regard being had to the other provisions of this Convention.

    What kind of royalties do you have? If they are copyright royalties, it looks like they are only taxed by the State in which you are a resident (i.e. France, if you are successful in becoming a resident there). Other royalties can be taxed in both States if you are a resident in one State (France) but the royalties arise in the other state (US). But the other state, the one where the royalties arise, but where you don't live, can only levy a maximum of a 5% tax.
     
  3. MasterMike

    MasterMike D22

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    Oh why-O
    Why-O
    Did I leave
    Ohio
     
  4. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    It's my thread and I don't mind. The UK has a high cost of living, that's for sure. We won't go into politics now, will we? ;)

    Sailchris, as for the discussion of royalties being easy, you are making my head spin!

    Really, I don't want to live in France, but hmmm, the Caribbean, that's another story. Can anyone give me the scoop on that?
     
  5. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Because it's freakin' cold in the winter and no sailing then, that's why!
     
  6. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    I lived on St. Croix for a summer. It was fun, but if you are used to the fast pace of life in the States you might need some time to adjust. You can move to the USVI relatively easily.
     
  7. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Belize is a great place. Don't think the racing will be too competitive but sailing out of this world (on their barrier reef). English speaking, currency lied to the US $, low property prices. But the main thing is their outlook on life - excellent.

    Plus you could retire. They have an amazing retirement package with unbelievable tax perks (like no income tax). Don't worry about retirement being age related - it is not. In their terms retirement just means you cannot work for a Belizian company in Belize - any age is OK.

    A quite fantastic country. If it was not for my dogs I would be living there now (or maybe in Costa Rica as a 2nd choice).

    Ian
     
  8. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I knew that English was the language of Belize and the water is great there. Sounds interesting, but I need to stay in the states for a few more years. My mother is 87. . .

    Do they not take dogs in Belize?
     
  9. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    They would, but it is me who would not put them through the flight, then, once there lack of kennels for any return visits home, etc. Also, I would want to live out in the forest and it would be a bit hazardous for them.

    Ian
     
  10. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    Merrily,

    Dual resident taxation is COMPLICATED. My wife and I spent 2 years in the Netherlands - she is a Yank, I am a Canuck with a British Passport - which helps get you into the EU in a HUGE way.

    In anycase, as a US Citizen you are required to file your taxes every year no matter what. We had to pay taxes at the Netherlands rates - which are MASSIVE compared to the US - about 50% I think. France and Belgium have similar policies - BUT - they have better pub. transport, education, etc - all of which you wont get the advantage of, but can observe and pay for;-)

    YOU US tax liability as I understand it is limited to (generally) the difference between the what you 'would' have owed in the US to what you paid in France. It is almost a SURE bet that you will have paid a lot more in France. Getting it all sorted is NOT easy - we are still trying to get 2006 right - luckily my company helped me with it, so I don't have too many headaches, just waiting to know what the bill may be - DOH - at that point the last thing that I will be worrying about is the price of a new Laser Sail!!! LOL.

    In anycase, if you really are interested, I would start out by going to a website called www.expatica.com. This is a pretty good resource and the people on the message boards are BRUTALLY honest. AND it has tv listings in English which was a god send.

    In anycase, I really think you need to look NORTH. Vancouver is amazing as is Victoria. Halifax is a great place as well but the weather is not the best, but it does have the BEST beer in Canada! Lately though I have not seem much in the Laser category going on up there - hopefully I am wrong there though!

    Matt
     
  11. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Mawill,

    Thanks for the tax info. 50%. Yikes! (Why is there only one yike in Montana? ;))

    Vancouver/Victoria. I have visited Vancouver and it is beautiful, but I'll be brutally honest. Are you out of your mind? :) I'm trying to get away from the cold and you suggest wet and chilly instead. I think I've found the best beer/ale anywhere already. Full Sail made in Oregon.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. We like to snorkel, too.
     
  12. ChalmersP

    ChalmersP Member

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    And yet again, you can go down to the keys and anchor up, the water down there is beautiful so it is perfect for snorkeling!
     
  13. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    This is what I'm thinking, Chalmers. Trailer the Starwind to south Florida and set sail for the Keys! We can live anywhere in the region. That out of the US talk was interesting, but it won't work for us right now. Maybe in our dotage. That's why I'd still like to know what has happened to house insurance rates. I've heard they've gone up in all the east coast and Gulf states due the recent hurricane activity.
     
  14. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Our boat is too itty bitty for a true live aboard, 22 feet. Few marriages could hold up to an extended time with that! We'll only go out for a few days at a time--however long the supplies (and the marriage) hold up. In fact, thinking about it, we'll drive the boat out and launch from the Keys to have more time on the water. We definitely need to learn about any restrictions.
     
  15. bmitchell

    bmitchell New Member

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    It's a little late but I just got around to reading this thread. Looking in my copy in French of the rules, rule 17 appears to refer to this as "route normale".
     
  16. bmitchell

    bmitchell New Member

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    And now back to Merrily's initial subject, today was only the first "crappy" day in Texas, so by all means move South. Actually, I almost went out anyway despite the fog layer on the lake as high as a Laser mast, but when the rain came back and I realised that not only could no one see me but I would not be able to see them either, I decided that going out would be a bad idea. Not that anyone else would have been crazy enough to go out today ...

    Bill
     
  17. knot_moving

    knot_moving Member

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    Don't remember if I answered your earlier question on FL insurance rates. We live about 3 miles from the bay and rates here are running about 1$/sq ft give or take a little. As you get closer to the gulf or water I would think they go up considerably.
     
  18. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    $1/sq ft sounds steep already. I've also heard from my husband's friend who lives on Merritt Island that the big insurance companies refuse to insure that area at all. Anybody know where to get the scoop on Atlantic coastal insurance? Not just Florida.
     
  19. knot_moving

    knot_moving Member

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    Well the good news (from a cost of living point of view) is that our property taxes are less than $1000 a year! Of course that shows up when you look at where Florida ranks in school performance and when you go looking for parks or bike paths ...

    But we have been here 14 years and have no intention of willingly relocating!
     

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