Dynema rigging

Discussion in 'Sailing Talk' started by Kitecop, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    image.jpeg i just picked up this boat and would like to replace the standing rigging with amsteel. This is my first sailboat, i dont know anything bout the boat itself but i have figured out how to rig it. Any tips in rigging with dyneema?
     
  2. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Dyneema standing rigging is something that is still on an experimental stage even in developmental dinghy classes. I'd say this one is very close to the bottom of your to-do list on your boat. Unless the existing wires are in a bad shape, forget it.

    Extremely cool colour, by the way :D
     
  3. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    Yup ive got one that has 2 or 3 broken strands. I have experience w splicing dyneema in other disciplines so i figured id swap it out. What are the down sides on a small boat? The current rigging on the boat doesnt even have a way to tighten it once its hooked up. I was going use dyneema and add a way to tension it a bit
     
  4. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Downsides I've heard about are the difficulty of getting the right (and/or equal) lengths, creep under tension, and therefore difficulties in tuning, especially repeatability. A more practical problem is vulnerability to wear and tear and chafe, even vandalism. And it really doesn't have any advantage over wire at this scale; for instance, no real weight savings.

    About rig tension: it looks like your mast doesn't have spreaders, which means you can't tension the rig much without the mast bending the wrong way (forward). It also looks like there is a luff wire in your jib, which is probably supposed to take the rig load instead of the forestay. In that case, you could use a Dyneema(ish) jib halyard with a simple purchase at the cleat for tensioning the rig.
     
  5. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    Ive been attaching the jib to the forestay. There r no cleats on the hull itself.
     
  6. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Well, as the jib has hanks after all, you might as well. But that doesn't mean that the luff wire/halyard couldn't be tighter than the forestay.
    I meant the jib halyard cleat on the mast. With one block (or even just a rope loop, Sunfish-style) you can make a simple 3:1 jib halyard with which you can get adequate tension for this rig.
     
  7. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    I need a pic of what your talking about. Do u mean a halyard that runs from the bow not down the mast?
     
  8. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    No, I mean exactly like your jib halyard is, running down the mast and cleating at the horn cleat on the mast... except it would be made of non-stretchy rope (like what you were thinking for the shrouds), and possibly include a simple purchase at that same cleat, on the mast.

    This is how it's done on a C420:
    [​IMG]

    The block at the top of the picture is at the end of the jib halyard. The line goes from the becket down to and around the horn cleat, back up through the block, and down again to be cleated. When the jib comes down, the block goes up the mast.
     
  9. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    H
    How does that provide and stability? Isnt it just going up and down the mast to tension the jib? None of that tenstioned line is attached to the hull.
     
  10. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Let's start from the picture in the first post. There is clearly a wire inside the jib luff, and that wire comes out at both ends and attaches the jib to the stem and the halyard. Compare it to the forestay: I can't say for sure just by looking at the picture, but I'd bet a beer or two that those two wires are the same thickness. This in turn indicates that it's the luff wire that is supposed to take the rig load against the shrouds instead of the forestay. This is how it's done on most dinghies with a sloop rig - the forestay is slack when the jib is up.
    It's mechanically irrelevant where the halyard is cleated. The point is that tightening it shortens the hounds-to-stem distance. That in turn lengthens the hounds-to-chainplate distance, which means tighter shrouds.

    I'm telling you all of this because you said:
    Before you add "a way", it's better to first find out what needs to be tensioned and why.

    Anyway, I'd like to see close-up pictures of the jib head and tack to see if there are more surprise pieces in the puzzle.
     
  11. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    So if I'm not using the jib then the mast is not supported properly.
     
  12. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    Small rigging issue:

    The jib sheets (lines from lower rear corner of the forward sail) should go through the metal eye straps just forward of the cam cleats. If you do not do this minor change the jib will easily pull the line out of the cam cleat.

    After pulling the line through the eye strap, tie a stopper knot such as a figure-8 near the end to prevent accidentally having the line slide all the way back out.
     
  13. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    Your jib is rigged very similar to mine...

    The forestay holds the mast up.
    The plastic pieces that clip the jib to the forestay are REQUIRED.
    The jib does not help hold the mast up. You can sail just fine without it.

    You CAN use the jib halyard to help pull the mast up and hold it while attaching the forestay to the bow chainplate (or whatever serves that purpose on that little boat... looks like just an eyebolt possibly with a big washer on the underside of the bow)

    *********************

    Also... do you have the boom?

    *************

    The more I look... the more I see that may need some revision to the rigging of the sails.
    The jib sheet should be knotted at the bottom rear corner of the sail to prevent it sliding back and forth through the grommet.

    I suggest finding someone local who sails the Capri 14, Vagabond 14 (Holder 14 or Hobie One) or similar so they can give you some in person aid in properly rigging the boat.
    Its not going to be a hard boat to rig even if unfamiliar with it if they have sailed any small fractional sloop.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  14. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    If you're not using the jib then the boat is not rigged properly. It's not an "extra" or "optional" sail which you can leave out without affecting the sailing characteristics of the boat. Of course it's physically possible to sail a sloop without the headsail, but that's not what it's designed for. It's going to be seriously imbalanced, and will be like a car constantly pulling to one side (which will switch from tack to tack). Hard to steer especially with a very short-looking tiller like yours.

    So sail it with the jib. If it's a handful, get a crew. Your boat is supposed to be sailed doublehandedly anyway. Looking at its measurements, it's obvious that it was designed for very light people. Find a kid who's done some doublehanded dinghy sailing to show you the ropes (literally) and you'll learn fast.

    Not necessarily, fh. There are more ways than one of doing this: what you described is the soft-luff system. Kitecop's jib appears to have a wire inside its luff, which I consider strong evidence for the other system that I described in post #10 above. The hanks in that system are useless for tuning and sailing, they only keep the sail from falling overboard when lowered. That is actually exactly what we do in the Lightning; jibs that are up all the time while sailing (as in boats like the 420, 470 and Laser 2) don't necessarily have hanks at all.
     
  15. Kitecop

    Kitecop New Member

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    The jib sheet attaches to the sail w a brass clip that is larks headed to the sheet itself. It doesnt slide back and forth.
     

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