Drysuit vs Zhik Superwarm Suit??

ALJM

New Member
After years spent not frostbiting it's time!! Trying to decide between going with the old standard drysuit or skipping the "420/FJ" wear and trying the just as expensive Zhik Superwarm combo of skiffsuit and top. Anybody have direct experiences or for that matter, alternatives?

FWIW, sailing out of southeastern Virginia, so water only really cold starting in January...
 
Wow, should I take it as telling that no one has responded after 112 views?? Do folks see Zhik's gear as too pricey hence the seeming lack of market penetration here??
 
I would never recommend a dry suit for laser sailing. I personally find them too bulky, restrictive and not as warm as what I wear now.

I have never worn the Zhik kit so can't comment on how warm it actually is. My personal opinion on the kit is that its overpriced for what you get and I'm not prepared to pay their prices. There are others on here who love the Zhik stuff though.

Your best bet is to go to your chandlers and try both options on and a few alternatives. Are they comfortable, can you move unrestricted, are you overheating (wearing that kit inside a shop you should be!).

Personally I go for lots of layers so that I can tailor my kit for the conditions on the day. Most of my gear is Rooster or SEA with a few other bits and pieces mixed in. I sail all year round this way.
 
Lol at Zhik being overpriced and Rooster not.

Is Rooster available through other dealers in North America? I've never come across it, but haven't bought gear for a couple years now.

Have you tried Zhik gear before to formulate that opinion, because, for me, it's held up perfectly through day in, day out usage.

If Rooster is not available through NA dealers, and you live outside of the UK, the shipping costs will be astronomical. In this case, the Zhik would be way cheaper.

Shipping aside, looking solely at the prices, I'm seeing that they are rather even.

British bias?
 
Shipping aside, looking solely at the prices, I'm seeing that they are rather even.

British bias?

I don't understand your British bias question. You made the argument about shipping cost being what made Rooster expensive in NA. Same for Zhik in Europe, I expect.
 
I would never recommend a dry suit for laser sailing. I personally find them too bulky, restrictive and not as warm as what I wear now.

Frostbiting is probably the only time I would say get a drysuit. I don't like the idea of getting wet when it's cold out just doesn't sound like fun. Most other people wear them so you aren't losing anything by wearing it or layers. I prefer to stay dry if I flip when it's cold out.
 
I don't understand your British bias question. You made the argument about shipping cost being what made Rooster expensive in NA. Same for Zhik in Europe, I expect.

My point was that it can depend on your location.

British bias because she's British...Rooster's British. She keeps saying that Zhik is over priced, but when I check out their respective websites, the prices appear to be similar. (Rough, 7AM, after working all night currency estimations) This would/could make where you are located a big factor.

TS is from Virginia.

If that were the case, I believe Zhik becomes the more viable option, simply due to there being so many dealers. (I'm not sure if Rooster is available through other dealers.) I would guess there are also Zhik dealers in the UK.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Rooster gear is available in NA (and some of it at really good pricing).
Intensity Sails, one of our forum sponsers, has a great deal on the Aquafleece right now.

Also another long time Laser sailor, John D-E, carries most of the line in Canada and will ship into the US.. http://www.jdemarine.com/
 
I'm not factoring in shipping as its not really an issue.

I can pick up Zhik stuff in my local Chandlery (close enough to cycle to so not even petrol cost) if I want but its very expensive compared to the kit I have bought from other manufacturers. (£60 for a Zhik buoyancy aid - £35-£45 from most other manufacturers for one example) I'm on a budget (as I imagine lots of people are) and haven't seen anything in the items that makes me want to spend that much.

It may well be cheaper in the states so a more viable option, but over here its too much.
 
I looked at a bunch of Zhik stuff, but never bought any. Just turned off by the price tag.

I know lots of people like Zhik equipment. It has a very popular, almost cult-like following. Kind of reminds me of the iPhone.

I don't have an iPhone either.
 
I haven't tried the Zhik Superwarm Suit, but have sailed Lasers plenty with the water temp in the 50-30f degree range in both breathable drysuit and wetsuits w/spraytops. If your launching of a ramp or beach, I would go the drysuit direction as keeping you feet warm in the Zhik Superwarm Suit will be hard in Feb/March. If you are sailing off a dock, very different and warmer, but I'd still go with the drysuit in cold water.
 
Rooster gear is available in NA (and some of it at really good pricing).
Intensity Sails, one of our forum sponsers, has a great deal on the Aquafleece right now.

Also another long time Laser sailor, John D-E, carries most of the line in Canada and will ship into the US.. http://www.jdemarine.com/

+1 on Intensity. I bought the Aquafleece recently at great pricing and delivery.
 
Good discussion from all on the real topic and given the international nature of our sport, how exchange and shipping rates affect buying power. Particularly good thoughts from 663, thanks.

A friend recently recommended Trident Drysuits, made in the UK. Significantly cheaper than what I have seen for sale in the US. Can anyone fill us Yanks in on them...quality, mobility (as applies to Laser sailing), etc...????????

ALJM
 
Rooster has a US storefront on their website and the shipping isn't that bad. I recently bought some stuff from them and I got it in 2 days for like 10 bux in shipping charges, duties included, although I do have a statement from FedEx wanting a few bux for unpaid duties.
 
Good discussion from all on the real topic and given the international nature of our sport, how exchange and shipping rates affect buying power. Particularly good thoughts from 663, thanks.

A friend recently recommended Trident Drysuits, made in the UK. Significantly cheaper than what I have seen for sale in the US. Can anyone fill us Yanks in on them...quality, mobility (as applies to Laser sailing), etc...????????

ALJM

The Trident kit looks pretty good and is pretty resiliant (this is only from what I have seen I do not own a Trident Drysuit).

I do have a Gul Breathable drysuit which works pretty well in most dinghies. I have worn it once or twice in a Laser but I was so paranoid about ripping it that I decided to take the layers option.

I have only even been too cold once whilst sailing a Laser (the workrate is significantly more than most other dinghies) that was when the spray was freezing on the deck as it landed. I restired because my gloves froze and I couldnt grip any ropes.
 
The responses that I've seen all seem to be talking mostly about keeping warm while still in the boat. Do the non-dry suit options keep you warm (enough) if you capsize and it takes a couple of minutes to right the boat?
 
Re: Drysuit vs Hick Super warm Suit??

The responses that I've seen all seem to be talking mostly about keeping warm while still in the boat. Do the non-dry suit options keep you warm (enough) if you capsize and it takes a couple of minutes to right the boat?

It all comes down to personal preference and tolerance to being cold. Age also plays a role, younger people, on avg can handle colder temps (and the initial jolt to your system that can affect your heart) better then older people.

One thing I've noticed where we frostbite, it's rare to see someone in a drysuit shivering between races or after a capsize, or call it a day early, while I've seen a number of folks do all those things in wetsuits.
 
I get by in 3-5 degree water without a dry suit.

You just have to minimize the time spent IN the water haha.

I have a pretty good tolerance for the cold, though. (Drive with air temp all the way to cold in the winter) As long as I kept my upper body, head and feet toasty, my actual legs were always fine.
 
The responses that I've seen all seem to be talking mostly about keeping warm while still in the boat. Do the non-dry suit options keep you warm (enough) if you capsize and it takes a couple of minutes to right the boat?

I guess I take it from my point of view which is that I am unlikely to capsize therefore I don;t worry too much about the swimming side. Wearing the kit I have I find that if I do go for a swim I am generally still pretty warm when i get back in the boat and then carry on. The problem comes after the race when you do tend to cool down really quickly.

FWIW I wear:

Rooster Pro hikers + Lycra shorts over
Cotton t-shirt
Sweatshirt (if it is really chilly)
Rooster Aquafleece (tucked into the Lycra shorts to prevent the spray going up the back)
Fleece or thinsulate hat
Wetboots
Thick woolly socks to cover the gap between the top of the wetboots and the bottom of the hikers.

As long as I don;t go in I am warm enough the whole day in that. If I go in then I nip ashore and change the tshirt, sweatshort and hat.

Air and water temps vary here but in January the lake has been known to freeze hard enough for someone to safely walk on it so water temps must be around the 3-5 celcius mark. Air temp varies wildy between -2 C to plus 8 or 9 C.

What also makes the biggest difference is if it sunny. The sun has a very marked warming effect even when the air temp is low.

Always err of the catious side though until you know what need to keep yourself warm.
 
1- to say you are not going in the drink or capsizing makes me laugh.

2- drysuit drysuit drysuit. I hate getting wet and sometimes do flip or fall out of the boat. Plus I hate getting wet.

With the drysuit I can go straight to the bar in the same clothes I just sailed
in.
 
1- to say you are not going in the drink or capsizing makes me laugh.

2- drysuit drysuit drysuit. I hate getting wet and sometimes do flip or fall out of the boat. Plus I hate getting wet.

With the drysuit I can go straight to the bar in the same clothes I just sailed
in.

1) This is just my opinion and my experience

2) If I sail a different class of boat (I often crew in a Fireball) then it is drysuit all the way unless the weather is particularly warm and the drysuit would make me too warm.

3) The lake I sail on is inland and relatively sheltered. There is always a safety boat at hand should anything happen. I know my abilities and limitations.

I do agree that a capsize or a swim can happen at any time due to something unforseen (such as equipment failure). However I still maintain that once you are cempetent you can minimise the risk of capsizing and tailor your clothing suitably.

As I said above I am still warm enough even after a short swim due to the work rate in the boat. If I go in too much or get too cold I go ashore, simple as.

If I sailed on more open water or on the sea then I am sure my approach to clothing would be different. Perhaps I should have qualified my statement.
 
FWIW I wear:

Rooster Pro hikers + Lycra shorts over
Cotton t-shirt
Sweatshirt (if it is really chilly)
Rooster Aquafleece (tucked into the Lycra shorts to prevent the spray going up the back)
Fleece or thinsulate hat
Wetboots
Thick woolly socks

Get rid of the cotton! No matter what the temps.
Wool or polypro.
 
After years spent not frostbiting it's time!! Trying to decide between going with the old standard drysuit or skipping the "420/FJ" wear and trying the just as expensive Zhik Superwarm combo of skiffsuit and top. Anybody have direct experiences or for that matter, alternatives?

FWIW, sailing out of southeastern Virginia, so water only really cold starting in January...

I am 200lbs, 5'10" with afro. that makes me stout. I also get hot easier and sweat above average. i have big meaty thighs and a large shoulder and chest measurement, i am a 35 waist. i am not fat, but i am not a pinner either. I lift and ride a bike 3x a week.

This year i bit the bullet and decided i would not be constantly concerned with clothing and wearing crappy stuff

45 degrees plus air temp in warm water, in this case the air is cold , water somewhat warm...
i bought XL zhik 3/4 hikers (APS) with power pads. so far these things have been really really awesome, thin, warm and flexible. i wear a poly pro top or my new metalite sea australia top, regular gloves. my calfs dont even notice anything from being exposed....

below 45 degrees somewhat cold water
Shin Tech Rooster suit (intensity). Man do i love this thing, it has fleece like lining and a super flexible neoprene, fits me great XL. Add Superwarm (aps) from zhik L. Great setup, i wore this in 38 degrees and 45 degree water, have not gone in the water yet. if the water is warm regular gloves.

Below 35 degrees, similar water
This is unchartered right now, i am tempted to keep wearing the shin tech as long as possible for mobility. even falling in, i would be okay in the shin tech probably until about 40 degrees?

or

I also pisked up a Gil breathable dryuit with the neoprene neck and cuffs on the sale rack..(APS). My wife, who is a little concerned with my cowboyness (i have sailed in shorts all the way down to 45 degrees before) insisted on it for her piece of mind
I will probably go to this quicker cause i know it is breathable..

Extremities
Gill 3mm boots (APS) and winter gloves (APS), Patagonia Beanie, and a baclava(EMS) when its really really cold...
 
Hey Everybody,

Great discussion!! Thanks for all your inputs, hopefully everyone who read the thread took some value away, I sure did!

First "frostbite" last weekend (not exactly Newport or LI Sound cold) was mid-40's airtemp and mid-50's water temp. Most wore wetsuits with a couple of drysuits. The few who swam in wetsuits (all ramp launched) were fine until we were finished and then got chilly while hanging out after sailing. A full wetsuit or skiff suit like the Zhik or Rooster would have been good to go, just would have wanted to change out asap after sailing if it was wet...

Happy holidays all!!

ALJM
 
Hey Everybody,

Great discussion!! Thanks for all your inputs, hopefully everyone who read the thread took some value away, I sure did!

First "frostbite" last weekend (not exactly Newport or LI Sound cold) was mid-40's airtemp and mid-50's water temp. Most wore wetsuits with a couple of drysuits. The few who swam in wetsuits (all ramp launched) were fine until we were finished and then got chilly while hanging out after sailing. A full wetsuit or skiff suit like the Zhik or Rooster would have been good to go, just would have wanted to change out asap after sailing if it was wet...

Happy holidays all!!

ALJM

Its amazing how quickly u get cold in a wetsuit when you stop moving, have to change before derigging sometimes...

cheers...
 
Its amazing how quickly u get cold in a wetsuit when you stop moving, have to change before derigging sometimes...

cheers...

I agree (though cannot compare wet to dry suites in this regard). It is whilst sailing around between races that I start to shiver; during the race I seem better (though I do sometimes wonder if this is related to concentrating on other things during the race).

Ian
 
I agree (though cannot compare wet to dry suites in this regard). It is whilst sailing around between races that I start to shiver; during the race I seem better (though I do sometimes wonder if this is related to concentrating on other things during the race).

Ian

adrenalin. Once the racing starts that'll kick in and plus you are moving more.

If you get cold between races get in a few roll tacks to warm up.
 
adrenalin. Once the racing starts that'll kick in and plus you are moving more.

If you get cold between races get in a few roll tacks to warm up.

Until ~10 minutes pass and you suffer from the eventual and inevitable adrenalin dump, which would make you feel worse than in the first place.

Running off adrenalin is usually never beneficial.

Agreed on the moving more part. Hiking usually doesn't provide much warmth, though.

or man up and go out win just your swim shorts? x

You first, hero.
 
Sailed in sub zero on Sunday, the sun made it bareable. 3mm wetsuit/ wooly bear/ drysuit/ neoprene balaclava/ woolly hat. First time I have tried all that, did not feel restricted in the f3.
 

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I always used to be cold in drysuits when I wore them in my youth.

Nowdays my kitbag is as follows:
Rooster pro hikers
Poly Pro top
Rooster Hot top
Gill Breathable + fleecy lined dinghy top
Hat
Wet socks
neoprene gloves

I sail with this down to about 4-5 degrees air temp. I don't mind wiping out in this gear, I stay just as warm even when I've had a few dunkings.

When it's closer to freezing and below I've got a 3mm long wetsuit I can add underneath everything, which I have done a couple of times when it's been below freezing and I've always been BOILING!

On the south coast of the UK, the water never really gets that cold. 5-6 degrees is about as bad as it gets, maybe I'd be more pro-drysuit if it was nearer to 1-0.

Anyway, for us in the UK Zhik stuff is amazingly expensive. The hikers cost twice as much as the rooster pro. Are they 100% more effective? No. You'd be better off putting that £100 into your "new sail" fund or spending it on some sessions with a coach.
 
...

Agreed on the moving more part. Hiking usually doesn't provide much warmth, though.
...

I disagree - when I'm hiking hard my heart rate is between 140-160bpm, same as when I'm going for a brisk cycle or a run, and it keeps me just as warm as doing those two activities.

(I have to cycle in shorts unless it's below freezing or I get too hot).
 
I sailed at the Grafham Grand Prix yesterday (for the non UK members its a mixed fleet handicap event on a lake). Lots of people dropped out due to the cold conditions (the car said 4degrees when we arrived but lots of ice everywhere and getting to the waters edge was interesting due to slipping all over the place whilst trying to pull my boat). My husband capsized in the first race and informs me that there were bits of ice floating in the lake. I raced in the kit below

Polypro legs and top
SEA winter hot top
Musto top
Rooster pro hikers
Aquafleece
Rooster semi dry
Wetsocks
Hat and neck gaiter

With this lot I was still warm at the end of the second race and was the only laser to complete both races. Even the dry suit wearers were giving up due to the cold. The reaches were fairly evil as it was good and windy so fast and fun, but the spray on the reach was like having ice shards thrown in your face!

Tried to sail at Haversham SC today but the lake was iced over again (couldn't sail on boxing day either) so hopefully it will warm up a bit soon.
 
I disagree - when I'm hiking hard my heart rate is between 140-160bpm, same as when I'm going for a brisk cycle or a run, and it keeps me just as warm as doing those two activities.

(I have to cycle in shorts unless it's below freezing or I get too hot).

Definitely agree hiking keeps you warm. Once I'm racing I get very warm but need the layers to keep warm inbetween races when sitting around doing not a lot.
 
Once again great stuff!! Folks bringing the info, correlating kit vs. conditions, very useful, thanks!!!
 

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