Double hiking strap?

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by sk8ingsailor, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Think about how much your feet move during a tack, and more importantly, how much they move independently from each other. With a double strap you would limit that motion. Maybe it's hard for you to visualize, so get one and try it...I think you'll find that it doesn't really help you.
     
  2. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    you guys are such weeners saying that its illeagal because "it clearly says if it isn't specifically written in the rules , then its not allowed"
    i mean your the same people who wine if joes sail numbers are 39mm apart instead of the required 50mm or w.e.

    using your logic
    first off, it says nothing about marking your spars (with your name) with a marker or pen therfore anyone you identifies their equipment in any way is a CHEATER
    second, it says nothing about competitors being allowed to tape their tillers or extentions (quite comon as the joints are really shity) if you do tape the joint you are a CHEATER
    third, it says nothing about juice spills and how they could effect performance a little tiny bit therefore anyone eating lunch on board there boat with juice in it is a cheater
    fourth, It says nothing about having a waterbottle so therfore everyone with a waterbottle on board is a cheater
    fith, i found this for the rudder
    rule,
    Surface refinishing of the rudder blade is permitted provided that the original shape, thickness and characteristics are not altered

    hmmm how can you refinish which means, to give a new surface; the blade and not change the thikness or original shape? unless of course you do it perfectly down to the last nanometer

    so stop being so hard assed about chaging rules because your boat is probably illeagal too

     
  3. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    you guys are such weeners saying that its illeagal because "it clearly says if it isn't specifically written in the rules , then its not allowed"
    i mean your the same people who wine if joes sail numbers are 39mm apart instead of the required 50mm or w.e.

    using your logic
    first off, it says nothing about marking your spars (with your name) with a marker or pen therfore anyone you identifies their equipment in any way is a CHEATER
    second, it says nothing about competitors being allowed to tape their tillers or extentions (quite comon as the joints are really shity) if you do tape the joint you are a CHEATER
    third, it says nothing about juice spills and how they could effect performance a little tiny bit therefore anyone eating lunch on board there boat with juice in it is a cheater
    fourth, It says nothing about having a waterbottle so therfore everyone with a waterbottle on board is a cheater
    fith, i found this for the rudder
    rule,
    Surface refinishing of the rudder blade is permitted provided that the original shape, thickness and characteristics are not altered

    hmmm how can you refinish which means, to give a new surface; the blade and not change the thikness or original shape? unless of course you do it perfectly down to the last nanometer

    so stop being so hard assed about chaging rules because your boat is probably illeagal too

     
  4. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    One of the attractions of the Laser for most owners is that the class rules are very strict and that the boat is one design. The Laser philosophy incorporated in the rules is that we want to go sailing, not waste time fiddling with boats. We want to win races on the water using our skill, not by trying to find a way round the rules that will give us an advantage.
    The Class Rules are written to prevent any changes from the standard boat that might affect performance, so that on the water each boat is the same. The few changes to the standard boat that are allowed are minor and only to allow for a few options that make racing the Laser more comfortable and enjoyable. Over the years the class has refused to make changes to the rules that allow more expensive or complicated equipment or which makes older boats redundant.

    If you feel you want to change something on a Laser - STOP
    Ask yourself why you want to do it? If the answer is “to make me go faster” there is a very good chance the modification or addition is illegal!


     
  5. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Hey go for it! However, don't whine to us when you take your first crash tack and drown because you had your feet tangled up in that death trap.
     
  6. Ross B

    Ross B Guest


    That stuff raises some interesting points.
     
  7. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    No it doesn't. The things that OliLaser mentions do not affect performance and so are not illegal.
     
  8. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    easy there tiger
     
  9. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    A broken tiller will effect performance. So will drinking and eating lunch as opposed to not.

    And about the guideline of "...ask yourself why you want to do it. If the answer is to "make me go faster"...." it leaves the door wide open for all kind of adjustments.

    The line between going faster and more convienience or even just plain old preference is pretty thick.

    In reality I bet the defence of personal preference will never be upheld. More like club politics will decide it. So should the opening pages of the ILCA rules state

    "...if we get a protest over your equipment we'll decide based on what our mates say, not any defence you give. Thus you are GUILTY before we even start. Don't even bother turning up to the protest meeting, we'll do it without you."

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Saw, will you have my nonexistent babies? :)
     
  11. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    you're right, you can't, not with any backyard technolgy I can think of and certainly not a handful of wet n dry and a sanding block.

    It's a contradictory rule: you can do what you like to the thickness of the last 100mm strip of trailing edge as long as the side elevation shape stays within tolerance through error and not design, but you're not allowed to change the thickness of the board? LOL they may as well have saved themselves some wind and said: don't touch it!
     
  12. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Thats why I don't bother messing with my blades, I pay someone else to do it! :)
     
  13. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    LOL You could save some cash by imagining someone did something to your boards and just put them in the garage for a week and get them out unchanged. Then they'll always be legal. Or maybe you could get a letter for protest purposes from your foil maker that says:

    Dear Ross,

    Accidently included your board in other work for refinishing. It has been refinished in error and not by design. Sorry. Can't say it won't happen again and I certainly didn't plan it to happen. Please drop by when you're in the neighbourhood.

    Regards,

    Laser Foil Refinishing Services
     
  14. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    hahaha, it only costs $20, so I don't loose sleep over it. All that gets done is fix the trailing edge, fill gouges, and make it smooth, nothing crazy
     
  15. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Taping a tiller does not affect performance. Besides, the tiller and tiller extension are one part of the boat that is NOT restricted, so modifications thereto are a bad example:
    The tiller and tiller extension are not restricted in any way except that the tiller:
    i. shall be capable of being removed from the rudderhead.
    ii. shall be fitted with a cleat, hook, pin or eye tosecure the downhaul.
    iii. shall, except for normal wear caused by the traveller rope, be straight along its topmost edge between a point 30 mm in front of the forward edge of the rudder head and the cockpit end of the tiller.


    As far as "drinking and eating lunch," these are not "changes from the standard boat that might affect performance" because eating lunch and drinking water do not change the BOAT.

    Not sure where you are getting the "within tolerance through error and not design" language...because that's not in the rules. The rules just say that "surface refinishing of the centreboard is permitted provided the original shape, thickness and characteristics are not altered." The rules also provide that "the trailing edge of the centreboard may be sharpened by sanding the blade between the trailing edge and a line 100 mm parallel to the trailing edge, provided the distance between the leading edge and the trailing edge of the blade is not reduced."
     
  16. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    Try sailing without a tiller extension! Your performance will be redced considerably.


    the point being made was that "if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't". there are no bad examples in that context.
    Does having a support boat change the performance?

    Are you allowed to take advice from coaches on support boats or have any contact with them while racing?

    and once again, "if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't"...that's the context.

    The thing about rules is they have an intent, much like the law has an intent. the intent of ILCA rules is too make everything one design, the same from boat to boat. If you read the rules right through you will find a common theme: you can repair certain items, but you may not intend to change them. Refinishing is a maintenance specifically allowed. The tolerances given for the trailing edge is for margin of error reasons not re-design. That is pretty clear. When you find contradictions in rules like that you have to look for the intent.
     
  17. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Does having a support boat change the performance?

    Are you allowed to take advice from coaches on support boats or have any contact with them while racing?

    and once again, "if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't"...that's the context.


    Ths SI's at events cover what coach boats can/can't do.
     
  18. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Yes. But the rules specifically exempt the tiller and tiller extension from the rules prohibiting modification, so you can modify (or tape) them as much as you want as long as you comply with the three limited exceptions in the rule.

    See above. The rules exempt exempt the tiller and tiller extension from the rules prohibiting modification, so using them as an example of illegal modifications is a bad example because they can be modified at will.

    Don't get me started again on this topic. Having a support boat or taking advice from coaches certainly affects performance...but the Laser Class Rules are not the place to regulate conduct of competitors on the race course, that's the job of the Racing Rules of Sailing or the sailing instructions of an event (and it's an entirely different debate).

    I agree. The intent is to prevent modifications that are designed to improve performance. Regarding refinishing the centerboard, it is certainly possible refinish the centerboard without altering the original shape, thickness and characteristics, at least to the tolerances defined in the measurement rules.
     
  19. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Ross, I have to pick on you a bit:p A little self reliance will go a long way with any campaign. I understand you have cash and I say spend it if you got it, but 20 minutes with a sanding block and some 400 grit paper and your trailing edge is ready to go!

    For me I did a complete refinish of my rudder and dagger board, (they were a bit banged up) and came out better than new. Cost to me was 1 can of white krylon spray paint and some marine tex, (wet sanding paper was already in my "boat repair" closet.)

    Also, I got a couple of hours of quiet time with my boat. It's always a good thing to know your boat. I've learned that just because you pay someone does not mean they'd do it like you would. Sometimes they actually don't do anything and just say they did! Not saying that's ever happened to you, but it would be a good thing for you to know how to fix things on your boat when they break or most important keep them from breaking.

    Lastly, when you know your boat your head is a lot more clear when conditions get rough. Of all the boats I've owned and raced I've never had gear breakage cost me 1 place in a regatta and I've never worried about it because I go over every part with a fine toothed comb before any big event.
     
  20. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Don't worry, I know my boat, and I know how to take care of my boat,have done it, and always will, don't consider me a fool.

    The guy I go to is considered the guy to go to in my area, and EVERYONE goes to him for their boat work. It's just the way it's done over here.
     

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