Do spars deteriorate?

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Rubicon, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. jotag

    jotag Member

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    Glad to talk with a colleague. I am also engineer and GGM laser sailor. I own a commercial heat treatment and manufacture laser and opti practice spars.
    You are right. Because the laser spars are made with 6061 alloy, with a well done T6 you get a hardness greater than 16HW and you can be sure of getting a very good quality.
     
  2. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Can you clearly metal stamp the spars with the Intensity Logo. As a former international measurer, it's almost impossible to identify "practice" equipment from the authentic equipment and this played a major component of me stopping being a class official.
     
  3. jotag

    jotag Member

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    Since JOTAG is a trademark in the USA from the beggining of this year, we identify our products with a sticker. They are sold by Intensity Sails and West Marine.
    They were approved for the class just a month before Primex in Chile closed. After that, we were not interested in trying it again.
    We do an inhouse heat treatment of spars in Argentina. We keep a little piece of each spars and stamp a hidden mark to identify each one in case of a claim.
    It is not an aeasy matter practice spars as you know. For example, I do not know another manufacturer who makes the right size of radial lower masts ( 2 mm wt and reinforce inside ). Sellers usually have a full rig one adapted. Then when people use the wrong radial lower mast, the upper mast suffer a lot, because it must bend more than normal. And you can see wrinkles in the joint. Then people tend to claim for the upper. It is wrong.
     
  4. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    A sticker isn't good enough as it's easily removed. None of the copy sails go out of their way to make themselves identifiable, even to the point of using blue corners and a red product label, just authentic radial sails. You try measuring a couple of hundred boats in 2 days and it's easy to miss something.

    The replica manufacturers and suppliers are claiming they are helping the class, they could help a whole lot more by making their gear clearly distinguishable from the authentic equipment.
     
  5. jotag

    jotag Member

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    I don't know why someone would like to remove our sticker. If the authentic spars are well done, practice spars can be the same, not better. We want to asure the quality only for our customers with lower costs.
     
  6. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    Stickers fall off with age. People also want to use their cheaper illegal equipment for racing their boats and so if removing the sticker makes it look the same as a legal spare which has lost its sticker.
     
  7. jotag

    jotag Member

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    We do not manufacture illegal spares. Only ones to practice, unauthorized to race official championships. Official spars should be metal stamp. It happens that often the " legal spars as you say" often are not well done.
     
  8. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Now this is interesting. So Jotag spars actually fit in the class tolerances? That would make them a very special case. When did Primex close, and why? Are the spar manufacturers tied to a specific builder, that is, couldn't other builders sell your spars as legal (as they were apparently already approved by ILCA)?
     
  9. jotag

    jotag Member

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    We manufacture training spars and dollies and our sales policy is train with ours and race with authorized ones. This makes it cheaper for young sailors to start sailing and for professionals and recreational ones.
    I do not know if Primex closed by bankruptcy or by the change of the class policy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  10. bclark3862

    bclark3862 New Member

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    @AlanD I'd just like to point out that numerous Laser Class official items are marked with stickers only. In my experience, most of the time a sticker and stamp are present, but I have seen new Lasers with spars only marked with stickers. Not trying to spark a fire here, but I think all Laser sailors would benefit from having stamps on all gear that represents their respective manufacturer.
     
  11. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

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    I fully agree with all equipment being permanently stamped by the manufacturer. The main difficulty with the legal gear being stamped is that it hasn't been stamped for the last 45 years, so anything presented which isn't stamped can't necessarily be identified as being legal.
     
  12. bclark3862

    bclark3862 New Member

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    Understandable dilemma, but I don't think the addition of a stamp to gear would be difficult, expensive, or politically controversial. This is only improving transparency of the class, however, this is just IM(unqualified)HO.
     

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