Digital Compass Watch

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by Esteroali, Oct 19, 2005.

  1. dphoye

    dphoye Regular Member

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    I never thought I would say this...go Geezer go.

    I totally agree with you about the the Tactick compass referenced above. It offers all the same features as a standard compass but is more stable and easier to read. Many of us have the TackTick for use with our other boats already so there is no additional outlay of funds to use it on the Sunfish. I am totally in favor of seeing this approved by The Sunfish Class Association so how do we raise a big enough stink to overpower the likes of members with the same views as mike4947. Lets get this class into the 21st century people! You cant stop progress and if you do you are more likely to push members away.
     
  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Write to your Sunfish Class Regional Rep. Write to the members of the Advisory Council and the World Council. Write to the US Sunfish Class President. Write an article for the Windward Leg explaining why this rule change is a good idea. Take your TackTick along to Sunfish regattas and demonstrate it to other sailors (but don't race with it yet). Stand for office yourself so you can go to all the meetings and argue your case. Go to the NAs and raise this issue at the members AGM. Keep talking about it and campaigning for it.

    It (rightly) takes a long time and a lot of effort to change Sunfish Class Rules. But it can done. Go for it.
     
  3. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    For the record I am NOT against digital compasses. Only those that add navigation functions. Like I said before They did produce a simple compass only unit, but no one would buy it.
    And please anyone who protested any change of the rudder because of cost do not pertition for a compass that costs over twice as much as a new rudder without any actual performance gain.
    But, I'm not for either the navigation functions or an enhanced rudder.
     
  4. dphoye

    dphoye Regular Member

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    Mike4947...please explain how the the TackTick model above has a navigation function. As a current owner of this compass all it has is the abilty to show you a single number on the display for each tack so you dont have to remember 2 numbers. That number is calculated off the current heading and the user setting the angle the boat tacks through. Its just a number and it is still up to the end user to determine if the heading shown on the compass is a lift or header. The compass does not remeber headings nor does it tell you if your lifted or headed. Please explain how that is any different than reading the a standard analog compass...and BTW the tactical card compass used my most Laser sailors has the same features but in a card compass and I am allowed to use that compass on a Sunfish. Makes no sense that the TackTick is not allowed.
     
  5. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    That compass is the Tacktick T061, and APS has it for $449.00 (for the Old Geezer, that is four hundred forty nine dollars, not forty four dollars and 99 cents.) Given that many of the powers that be in the class want us to all have to fork over about $200 to get new vertical rudders to replace the perfectly good current rudders we have now, why not legalize these Tackticks? (I thought I might as well restart the rudder argument while discussing the compass!!)

    The reality is a lot of the top sailors win without using a compass (I don't think Eduardo uses one, and I don't believe Donnie Martinborough, who has won the second most Worlds uses one either) so if an individual sailor thinks blowing $449 will help him/her out, so be it. If it helps even out the competition and they then manage to hang with Eduardo, all the better.

    My guess is that the good sailors with old-fashioned compasses or no compass will still beat the less-good sailor with a $449 do-dad on their deck.

    BB
     
  6. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    The Tacktick can be set in tactical mode which gives a +/- number from a heading giving you navigational information in a direct mode as to whether you are headed or lifted. Note in pictures of the unit it has on the face "tack on plus".
     
  7. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are right. I think the display choice you are talking about is a digital version of the blue and white Ritchie many of us use. It shows a single digit, and you read whether you are lifting or being headed reading the single digit, not a potential 3 digit compass bearing. The "tack on plus" written on the compass is no different than writing that on your deck with a marker in front of your regular compass. I am saying this based on visiting both the aps site and the tacktick site. If someone owns one of these they can tell us for sure.

    All that said, if the people winning the worlds are doing so without a compass at all, I doubt that someone who is not already competitive in the class will become so just because they have a digital compass. It is a little more complicated than that.

    BB
     
  8. dphoye

    dphoye Regular Member

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    Mike4947...you are 100% compeletely wrong. The phrase "Tack on +" is simple a written reminder to the sailoer that on port tack you should tack when the number get higher. Its no different than writing a reminder on the deck with a grease pencil. The compass offers no memory feature. What they describe as a "tactical" mode is simple to display the same number on both tacks. As I mentioned in previous post the "tactical" number displayed is simply an adjusted heading based on the number of degrees the boat tacks through. The degrees the boat tacks through is set by the sailor and then the number is divided by two and simple added or subtracted from the real heading to give the same number on both tacks. That is what the "tactical" mode is. Also as I stated before the typcial tactical card compass used in the Laser class has the number on the card displayed this way. There is no difference so why are we not allowing the TackTick T061.

    Lets here from a some class representatives on this. Based on the description above is there any reason not to allow the T061 other than the class rules currently prohibit use?
     
  9. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    Got a call yesterday that clarified the digital issue for me.
    I was reminded that even a card compass is a navigation device and of the class rules:
    3.1.9 One or two compasses or stopwatches may be mounted on the deck so long as the watertight integrity of the hull is maintained.

    4.3 The use of electronic navigational devices shall be prohibited.


    So the use of non electric compasses is class legal, but any electronic navigation instumentation is prohibited.
     
  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Interesting. The USGS definition of "navigation" is "the position of a platform at a specific time. The position is commonly a latitude, longitude pair." See http://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/infobank/programs/html/definition/nav.html

    There is no way that the TackTick will tell you your latitude and longitude. So it is not an "electronic navigational device" and so is not prohibited under Sunfish Class rules.

    Thanks for clearing that up Mike.
     
  11. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    You edited the definition: "Navigation" (as used within the CMG InfoBank ) is the position of a platform at a specific time.
    Since we aren't in the CMG InfoBank, nice try, but no cigar.
    If you've taken (and mine was 35 years ago) a "navigation course" you'll remember that a compass is a navigation device. Try navigating without one.
    Now if you want to haul along a sextant to plot your course that would maybe be acceptable in the class rules. LOL
     
  12. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    I promised myself I would not let myself get sucked in to this lunacy, but I have:confused: ....I was hoping the Geezer was right and the issue could be settled, but I am afraid there is a strong counter-argument.

    Below is the dictionary definition of navigation. The definition of navigation requires you to also know the definition of navigate, which is further below. Since as the skipper of my Sunfish I am planning and controlling (and mentally recording) the course of my vessel, I am navigating. If I use an electronic compass to help me do so, I have broken the Sunfish rules.

    Further, the definition Geezer provided says it latitude and longitude are "commonly" used, implying there are other ways, and one of them could involve use of our beloved Tack Tick. After all this, I want to point out as I did yesterday that if I anyone wants to blow $450 on a compass in the hope that it will cause them to be slugging it out with Eduardo at the front of the pack next time, I say they should be able to and the rule should be changed.

    Beldar

    nav·i·ga·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nv-gshn)
    n.
    The theory and practice of navigating, especially the charting of a course for a ship or aircraft.
    Travel or traffic by vessels, especially commercial shipping.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    navi·gation·al adj.
    navi·gation·al·ly adv.

    [Download Now or Buy the Book]
    Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
    Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
    Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



    nav·i·gate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nv-gt)
    v. nav·i·gat·ed, nav·i·gat·ing, nav·i·gates
    v. tr.
    To plan, record, and control the course and position of (a ship or aircraft).
    To follow a planned course on, across, or through: navigate a stream.

    v. intr.
    To control the course of a ship or aircraft.
    To voyage over water in a boat or ship; sail.

    To make one's way: navigated with difficulty through the crowd.
    Informal. To walk: He was too unsteady on his legs to navigate.
     
  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    i·ro·ny n. pl. i·ro·nies

    1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
    2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
    3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.

    Gotcha! :rolleyes:
     
  14. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    You can't use too many ironies around any compass, it throws them off.
     
  15. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    We are FINALLY getting to the fun part of this discussion.
    :)
     

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