Difference betwen a Hyde sail and a North sail

S

stephane49

New Member
Hello I am a French laserist ;) and I would like to know Which difference between a Hyde sail and a North sail ? For example to collies pro:
http://sailorsproshop.com/sails.html#laser the price is less expensive for hyde, why :confused: in France we have only one kind of sail,
thank you for this information, and excuse me for my poor english:mad:
 
in australia, hyde is more expensive than north

it is all a case of where you are in the world, hyde sails are from europe so they are cheaper in europe, north are from asia so they are made cheaper so they are cheaper everywhere else in the world
 
A salesman at Fogh Marine described the difference this way. If you're Robert Sheidt and Ben Ainslie, then the Hyde would be your choice because at that level every little bit counts. If you're like the other 99 percent of us mortals, then we wouldn't notice the difference.
 
Chris, hi,
Hyde makes our loved European sail at this address:
http://www.hydesails.com/defaultx.asp?section=10&UAN=15
Have a deep look to the photo and you see the Lasersail that there is on the table. :)
So, in my opinion is, it is a bit nearer to your continent than to `stephane49´ and my or `snipeguy´'s continent....
Not, that I understand, why then the Hyde is more expensive at your continent than the North (from Sri Lanka).
I only know, that the top-pros, that I talked to, here measure everything before they take new stuff from the source, and we, the lower level sailors, only get the "lower-level"-stuff (compaired to theirs).
This top-pros find differences between hydes and hydes and mast-tops and mast-tops etc. etc. etc.

I agree full in `snipeguy´'s opinion. So, I think, "we" have other things to do, to come into the first row of racers ;0) ... The big pros all sail with the same 1st-level stuff on their orbit and we all with the "lower"-level-stuff at our orbit and so, it is again something like "one design" (at each orbital level of course).

The Laserstuff-prices differ much in Europe. France is very-very expensive (f.e. see homepage of "Paris Voile") compared to other European countries (f.e. UK or NED or Italy).

When I got "my new Laser-baby" at last Sunday, I have seen one of your nice and good top-mast-sections, Chris, at the garage of the former owner of my new Laser. Luckily, there are not very much from that pieces in use in Europe. So, I think, every continent has a nice Laser part, the others would like to have, too.

If `stephane49´ would search for the webside in German language of the `lasermasters´, he/she can find a link to a dealer form my country, that has what's desired. ;-)

Ciao
Looserlu
(that got a frozen nose and 20 cm snow tonite, only 4 weeks aft the end of the Summer 2005 in GER...:( )
 
hyde are no longer made in europe but in sri lanka in the same road as the north sails. the difference was that the hyde where made in a loft in england by real sailmakers while the north sails where made by slave labour paid workers who dident know what a sail is if it hit them in the head.
now north and hyde laser sail "factories" ( i refuse to call them lofts due to the poor quality of product) are both in the same industrial estate in the same road in sri lanka both with slave labour workers.
the only difference i know of at the moment is the lay up of the sail which is slightly different.
 
Keiran,

Your post is so full of mis-truths and non factual info that it's basically all BS.

1. The Hyde Laser sail is NOT made in Sri Lanka - read LL's post above.
2. It's obvious you have never been to either location, if you had, you never would have made up the rest of your statements. Calling the hard working sailmakers at either location slave laborers who know nothing and turn out poor quality sails is offensive and ignorant. It's also not even close to the truth.



Please explain the difference that you know of in the layup of the sail between the Hyde and North .
 
Thank you very much for your reponses, for resume only the place of manufacture changes and a litle bit the form.
Before buying a sail on the web and can be in the USA, because the price is more interessant, I wanted to know your opinion. The dealer can be delivry where he want??
I agree that any work merite wages but the workmen in Sri Lanka live about it well??
if you know the maid addresses on the Web, thank you to indicate them to me ...
I use a translator (web ) to write. thank you for your attention.:cool:

 
Well Keiran and 49208 are both wrong. The Hyde Sails are built in Cebu, Philippines. Check them out at http://www.hydesails.com/defaultx.asp?section=10&UAN=48 and notice the first picture of the "one-design" sail under production its a Laser Sail! The price difference in the US is about $100 USD +/- more for the Hyde Sail then the North. A few years ago the North Sails had some leach flutter and other issues so people started buying the Hydes which seemed a little better. Right now I would say there is little if any difference between them. Scott
 
A few years ago we rolled a Hyde sail and a North out on the floor.
"We" is a couple old men from opposite sides of the US whose parents worked in the boat building business, introduced us to the business end of sailing, and who have raced sailboats since we were very young.
Neither of us is a sailmaker but we have a fair tad of sailcloth inspection experience between us anyway..
We could not tell any differences in the cloth.

The sails had been sewn together slightly differently:
1. The ring of zig zag stitching near the very top of the sleeve was higher on one sail than the other.
2. One sail had straight stitch on the back of the batten pockets and the other had zig zag.
3. The batten pockets on one sail were sewn on flat and the other sail appeared to have the batten pockets sewn as a pocket. ( other ways to describe ? the pocket was sewn as a lump sticking out?
or
the pocket was sewn such that in the relxed state there was room for a batten to slid in? The flat version you have to open up for batten insertion.)
Another explanation?? One sail the primary sailcloth would carry the load all the time. The other sail the batten pocket and the primary cloth would share the load as they each had to deflect to accomodate the batten.
4 The sewing on the North seams was run off the end of the leech and then the leech was folded over; you could see stitches in the last half inch of the sail.
but
The Hyde sail showed no stitching in the folded over part of the leech. We supposed they carefully stopped just in front of the fold so the stitches would not show...

or puncture and weaken the leech cloth?

I will not say which sail had which construction. The differences may have been by design or by sloppy workmanship.

So who has what? What do you suppose the differences may cause??

Who cares?

I am just curious..

sorta
 
TheBoathouse said:
Well Keiran and 49208 are both wrong. The Hyde Sails are built in Cebu, Philippines. Check them out at http://www.hydesails.com/defaultx.asp?section=10&UAN=48 and notice the first picture of the "one-design" sail under production its a Laser Sail! The price difference in the US is about $100 USD +/- more for the Hyde Sail then the North. A few years ago the North Sails had some leach flutter and other issues so people started buying the Hydes which seemed a little better. Right now I would say there is little if any difference between them. Scott
Click to expand...
Scott, did you read this (just one relpy before Keiran) before you wrote your reply?:
http://www.laserforum.org/showpost.php?p=14892&postcount=4

By the way, also 90% of the leaches of a Hyde does flutter until today... I have 3 of them (a new rolled (5x used) 720 US$ worth here, one from 2001 (my sail for training) and one from 2002 (12x in used))
LooserLu
 
49208 said:
I'm wrong a lot, but not sure what you think I'm wrong about in my post.
Click to expand...


OOPs....didn't read L Lus post he already ratted out Hyde for building in Philippinses...sorry.....So basically the moral of this thread is buy which ever sail you can get a better deal on because they are both essentially the same...
 
If the fight is over....
What about comarisons and thoughts apout possible or real differences based upon comparison.?

Could someone read my post where we actually compared two sails??
I would like to know what anybody else has discovered rthinks based upon real actual careful and fair comparison.
 
gouvernail said:
If the fight is over....
What about comarisons and thoughts apout possible or real differences based upon comparison.?

Could someone read my post where we actually compared two sails??
I would like to know what anybody else has discovered rthinks based upon real actual careful and fair comparison.
Click to expand...
Send me one of each and I'd be glad to do the research. My hull number is 66236. I like black numbers, not the tilted ones either.
:D
 
gouvernail said:
If the fight is over....
What about comarisons and thoughts apout possible or real differences based upon comparison.?

Could someone read my post where we actually compared two sails??
I would like to know what anybody else has discovered rthinks based upon real actual careful and fair comparison.
Click to expand...


THERE IS NO LONGER ANY DIFFERENCE, BUY WHICH EVER ONE YOU CAN GET CHEAPER...THIS IS BASED ON REAL ACTUAL COMPARISON.....OUT
 
There is at least one major difference - Hyde uses Contender sailcloth, North uses cloth that they make (in one of their divisions called North Cloth)

There may be some things we will never know as long as the specs are not released to the general Laser public concerning the cloth. We do know that the cloth has to fall within a certain spec range (but I'm not sure I have read anywhere if that spec range is dealing with the normal measure of sail cloth, which is stretch under load, on axis and at 45 degrees off axis) but w/o knowing the rest of the builder specs, it's quite possible to achieve those specs coming from two or more different schools of thought as far as the cloth construction. Variables are yarn size, yarn count in the weave, and the amount of finish (resin) added

Now having said the above, the observations we've seen in our fleet on the race course would say that the sails made by both Hyde and North are about as equal as they can be on the race course. Isn't that all that matters ?
 
49208 said:
There is at least one major difference - Hyde uses Contender sailcloth, North uses cloth that they make (in one of their divisions called North Cloth)
Click to expand...

Yes, this used to be a major difference, but I am quite sure North has changed their production-process in such a manner that their cloth is as stiff as Hyde's. So, now - as you suggest yourself at the end of your post - there is no major difference.
It is interesting though that we are interested in these small details that we think will somehow make us much faster. Isn't the whole idea of one-design - and in particular the Laser - that every boat and every equipment is equal? Of course, there are obvious differences (for example between new and older boats), but I have seen laserites who whine about their boat, then exchange their boat with one of the fast sailors, and both end up in the same spot as they end up with their own boat.
Perhaps I am slightly of topic here (I have a tendency to go on tangents) but the differences between sails are really small and will not have a huge impact on your performance. A new sail obviously helps, and I am sure the top-sailors do have people on their teams who know what to look for. Yet, I think it is more of a quality-control than anything else.

Then, Gouvernail:
Your comparison seems to suggest just some minor differences, which seem to be more aesthetic than functional in nature. The only thing that I think could make a difference is that the extra punctures in the leech would make the North sail less durable. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Boathouse-guy: I don't want an answer that simply says : this is based upon "REAL ACTUAL COMPARISON." Tell me: what is this real and actual (or real actual?) comparison? Capitulation is merely a retoric device, not a real and actual argument.

One last (obvious) suggestion: if you buy a new sail make sure to break it in, and use your older sail when it is windy. Cunnigham and vang tension will quickly destroy the stiffness of the leech that makes your new sail faster.

GWF
 
Hyde vs. North Answer

Dear all who wonder why the hyde sail is more esxpensive than the north. Its simply because it is a much faster and better cut sail. The leach on the hyde is a bit tighter and the battens are longer also the hyde sail is still in good semi racing condition compared to north (wich has been in less regattas) also it is a bit fuller and is better for a good breeze
 
Re: Hyde vs. North Answer

OliLaser said:
Dear all who wonder why the hyde sail is more esxpensive than the north. Its simply because it is a much faster and better cut sail. The leach on the hyde is a bit tighter and the battens are longer also the hyde sail is still in good semi racing condition compared to north (wich has been in less regattas) also it is a bit fuller and is better for a good breeze
Click to expand...

Smoking some good stuff eh Oli
 
Georg W.F. said:
Boathouse-guy: I don't want an answer that simply says : this is based upon "REAL ACTUAL COMPARISON." Tell me: what is this real and actual (or real actual?) comparison? Capitulation is merely a retoric device, not a real and actual argument. GWF
Click to expand...


GWF its called Sarcasim..:eek:
 
TheBoathouse said:
GWF its called Sarcasim..:eek:
Click to expand...

1. What exactly is called sarcasm (what is the "it" in your statement)?
2. Sarcasm should not be confused with irony: irony is saying one thing and meaning the opposite, while sarcasm often uses irony, but is used to hurt the feelings of someone else. So, whose feelings are you hurting, and if you use irony, what do you mean then? I reread your post and the others before that, but it still does not make any sense. Maybe I am an idiot. I don't want to be a complete asshole, but I would like to at least understand your opinion on this issue, since you see a lot more of these sails than most of us do (and actually make some money on them).

GWF
 
How about a bit of user info????

My last sail was a hyde from the UK it had a nice cut and was ok. My next was vanguard so I guess North and it is fine. The battern pockets were different on the sails but I have not noticed a huge difference in the performance as I am still doing fine and beleive unless you can hike at 90% 100% of the time the type of sail is not going to make a huge difference. I just used a hyde at the worlds and it was fine. I was also told that they are changing the shape of the battern pockets from the in /out ones to the ones that have the bit on the top as people lose battern from the in out ones.

What I have noticed though is both sails break down quickly with lots of heavy use. My new sail at the worlds was an old sail by the end of the week in the 30kts.
I normally end up with a new sail at least once a year because after 3 windy regattas it is looking a bit sad.
Make sure you roll it up widthwise and don't roll your sail around the mast.
 
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