Daysailing Sail Recommendations ?

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by gabain, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. gabain

    gabain New Member

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    My recently purchased mod 2 needs a new jib, and I'm looking to stay with roller-furling. If doing so won't cost me a fortune, I'd like to get another colored sail, 'cause let's face it, they' re pretty. :)
    Does anyone have any recommendations for a choice of loft for an inexpensive all-purpose sail that would meet this purpose?

    The main is also original to the boat (1990). It's a bit stretched and has blown out one batten pocket but still seems useable. I'd like to be able to reef the main, so I'm contemplating either having reef-points put in the existing sail or biting the bullet and ordering a new main with the reef-points sewn in at time of manufacture.

    What is a sensible price for having a set of reef-points added to the existing sail? Any thoughts from experienced folks on whether it's worth investing in a modification to a sail this old?

    Thanks for your wisdom,

    Gordon
     
  2. Ed Jones

    Ed Jones Secretary/Vice Commodore Staff Member

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    Old sails

    The last time I checked, a new colored jib from Catalina (818-884-7700) was $394. If you order one, be sure to tell them it's to use with roller furling.

    Adding reef points to a mainsail is no big deal. I'd guess a sailmaker would charge $75 - $100. Is it worth it? If you singlehand a lot I'd say it is. Same if you sail with a partner in gusty winds.

    I sail my Capri almost exclusively for racing, but if I mostly cruised I'd have both roller furling on the jib and reef points on the main. Let's face it, the Capri 14.2 is somewhat over-canvassed, and the ability to reef is cheap insurance.
     
  3. jaeger

    jaeger New Member

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    Ed,

    I agree with your statements as to why you would want reefing.
    I sail solo most of the time. Last time out I did not feel comfortable with the main so I sailed with just the Jib. This was good practice, so not a total waste.

    Once the sailmaker puts the reef points in the sail, what would be involved (with estimated cost) of whatever is gear is required to perform the reefing.

    I have a jib furler and I have a question regarding there use. If you look at West Marines catalog they state that some of the furlers are NOT meant for reefing. Does this mean that you should only sail with the Jib fulll out or not at all? I have sailed with the Jib half out and it works, but I am not sure if I am stressing something by doing so.

    One other question. The foot of my sail sits very close to the bow, making it difficult to see forward and to weather. I have a small "window" in my Jib (~1 foot high and 2 feet long), but it t does not really provide a good field of vision. I understand that the Jib is designed this way to maximize sail efficiency, but, It does not make sense to go fast just hit something faster. I have to imagine that if you did have a Jib with a higher foot, the angle of the jib sheets would not be exactly correct. Come to think of it, when I unfurl the jib only partially, the foot is higher.
    Do they make Jibs fo rthe 14.2 that do not sit so low?

    Maybe a bigger window??

    Art
     
  4. jaeger

    jaeger New Member

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    Ed,

    I agree with your statements as to why you would want reefing.
    I sail solo most of the time. Last time out I did not feel comfortable with the main so I sailed with just the Jib. This was good practice, so not a total waste.

    Once the sailmaker puts the reef points in the sail, what would be involved (with estimated cost) of whatever is gear is required to perform the reefing.

    I have a jib furler and I have a question regarding there use. If you look at West Marines catalog they state that some of the furlers are NOT meant for reefing. Does this mean that you should only sail with the Jib fulll out or not at all? I have sailed with the Jib half out and it works, but I am not sure if I am stressing something by doing so.

    One other question. The foot of my sail sits very close to the bow, making it difficult to see forward and to weather. I have a small "window" in my Jib (~1 foot high and 2 feet long), but it t does not really provide a good field of vision. I understand that the Jib is designed this way to maximize sail efficiency, but, It does not make sense to go fast just hit something faster. I have to imagine that if you did have a Jib with a higher foot, the angle of the jib sheets would not be exactly correct. Come to think of it, when I unfurl the jib only partially, the foot is higher.
    Do they make Jibs fo rthe 14.2 that do not sit so low?

    Maybe a bigger window??

    Art
     
  5. Larry Conrad

    Larry Conrad New Member

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    I solo almost exclusively. When I started, there was no furling for the jib, and no reefing on the main. Sailing in gusty winds was scary too often. The Harken jib furler really helped, and the $100 in reefing was also worth the money. I can sail safely in heavier winds. That gives me more chances to sail. When I do sail, I have more fun.
     
  6. jaeger

    jaeger New Member

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    Larry,
    I also have a Harken Furler. Do you ever sail with only a portion of the Jib unfurled?

    Art
     
  7. Ed Jones

    Ed Jones Secretary/Vice Commodore Staff Member

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    Reefing questions

    Art - Lotsa questions, dude. The cost of the hardware for mainsail reefing is trivial. For the clew, you need a second cheek block at/near the end of the boom, a jam cleat for the middle of the boom, and a piece of 1/4" line. (I'll let you figure out how long.) For the tack, you need a padeye to go on the mast for one end of the reefing line, a piece of line, and another jam cleat for the other end of the line. You'll also need a few pieces of cord to attach to the small eyelets (3) in the middle of the sail.

    I once had a Harken jib furler and was able to sail with it partly furled. Looked kinda sloppy, but seemed to work.

    Roller furling works best with the sail cut so that it has a high clew. I believe if you order a jib cut for roller furling furling it will be like that, only ask them when your order it. The reason for the high clew is prevent a big mass of sailcloth along the bottom when you furl it.

    I recommend all jibs use much bigger jib windows than the ones Catalina provides. All the racing sails from North, Quantum, etc. have big windows. I've been bugging Catalina for years to do the same but its like talking to a wall.
     
  8. Dick Krebill

    Dick Krebill New Member

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    Reef in Mainsail

    Gordon: If you don't have a sailmaker nearby, check out www.sailrite.com They have a jiffy reefing kit that I purchased for my C 14.2. Peg sewed in the reefing points with a regular but good sewing machine. Used lubricating oil on the thread and needle and replaced a couple of needles that broke as sewing involved several layers of sailcloth. We were prepared to fill in with a hand awl, but that was not necessary. Sailrite's directions were very good and installation of hardware on mast and boom was easy. The end product is quite nice. Dick
     
  9. Larry Conrad

    Larry Conrad New Member

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    Art,

    Yes. In heavy winds, I partially furl the jib to take off a little power.
     
  10. gabain

    gabain New Member

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    Thanks to all for the advice.

    Thus far I have my name in the queue for work at a Quantum loft about an hour from here. They have a two week backlog of work, so the guy there is going to call me two days before my reef job (estimated at ~$100) is ready to be done, and I'll just drive the sail over there at that point so I'm not without canvas in the meantime. I'll post again once the job is done to let folks know my experience there.

    I've also just ordered a new furling jib from Supersailmakers in Florida. The numbers on that are $222 base price for the sail, $31 for a view window and $15 for shipping. Their sail is a 5 horizontal panel design. Making it in colors would have added $33 to the price, but as long as they weren't going to replicate the radial pattern on my existing sails I decided not to do color after all. The estimated delivery time is 3-4 weeks.

    Following up on a link I found elsewhere on this forum, I checked out "The Sail Exchange" www.sailexchange.com
    and found them to have about a dozen, mostly new, Capri mainsails on their web site, including one with reef points already in it. The prices on these were $175 each - amazing in comparison to the ~$460 charged at most lofts. I called up to buy the one with the reef points and was disappointed to learn that somebody from San Diego had come up and bought every Capri sail he had in stock earlier this week. The Sail Exchange's owner said that he has a hard time keeping the inventory on the web site up to date, so it's always a good idea to call even if you don't see your sail on the web site.

    Gordon
     
  11. c14_Jeff

    c14_Jeff New Member

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    Gordon, thanks for the tip about Sailexchange inventory. I'd was just about to look there for what was available.
     
  12. skysurfer3

    skysurfer3 New Member

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    Photo of Reefing setup

    Does anyone have a photo of the reefing set-up for the main?

    Also, how many reef points does anyone recommend for the main?

    And last question, is there a place to buy a sail cover for the main so I can leave it on there over night instead of having to rerig it?

    Thanks,

    Michael:confused:
     
  13. skysurfer3

    skysurfer3 New Member

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    One other thing

    How far up the sail would you recommend putting in reef points?

    Thanks,

    Michael
     
  14. regularman

    regularman New Member

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    The hanbook says two reef points but this seemed too far apart for me so I put 3 equally spaced reef points in. This seems to work pretty good. I would put the points in about 4 feet up. Just put the new reefing clue right under the lowest batten and it should work out good.
     
  15. gabain

    gabain New Member

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    First time out with new jib and reefed main

    I got my new jib from SuperSailmakers of Florida last week. $250 for the sail with a window about 50% bigger than the original. The new sail is cut a bit differently than the original, with a much higher clew.

    Setting up the boat, I found that the new forestay was a hair too short, and with the adjuster for the forestay at full extension already I loosened off the shrouds by one space on the starboard side and two spaces to port (in order to have them at the same setting) to get some slack to attach the forestay. I should also mention that as it was a gusty day and my crew was a novice sailor, I used the new reef points in my main ($122 from Quantum Inland in Delavan, WI, including shipping one way).

    The reefed main worked like a charm, but the new jib was a great disappointment. The jib would luff badly when close hauled with the main filling perfectly. I don't even have the traveller tied off. I had to bear away a full 15 or 20 degrees to get the jib to fill properly.

    The forestay was obviously a little too skack. Based on what I've read here and in the handbook, and a little common sense, I'm going to tighten up on the shrouds a little, and move the fairleads back 6 inches next time I sail, but I'm keen to hear any other suggestions.

    As a footnote, I'd also mention that I reefed the main very successfully without installing additional hardware on the boom. I just ran the cunningham through the new tack and shackled the outhaul to the new clew, then tied off the loose sail with short ties.

    Gordon


    Puffin
    #3484
     

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