Cutting out inside filling foam

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by remington870_20ga, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Ok, as some of you may know im cutting hatches in the boat. Ive already done the back. I cut out an 8" hole and everything around and under it so I could put a 8" tube in there for dry storage. Ive had some people concerned about it though. They say it will kill the floatation in the back of it. So, I figured just fill it up with some good stuff and then insert the dry storage tube. Any thoughts?
     
  2. Gail

    Gail 24186

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    The two part expanding foam (yellow or brown) that is excess outside the white styrofoam is expendable. That between the foam and the deck or hull is working as "glue." It shall remain. All white styrofoam is structural and shall remain. If any has been removed, the hull is weakened some at that spot. Look at the Yahoo page and there are drawings and diagrams there and through links off it for where the white styrofoam blocks are located. Dry? In a Sunfish? Fairly unlikely even in a "dry tube." Maybe if you get one of those bubble bags sold by a chandlery. If you glue your tube inside the hull but down the inspection port hole and then need to get at the area later to fix something you'll really have a job. Don't know what to suggest ...
     
  3. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Well. I think maybe a epoxied bracket will do in replace ment of the small missing piece of foam. However, im going to make a sort of "basket" of fiberglass to keep it sealed. Ill get it done. Its the whole point of this project is to do something new and original.
     
  4. Tim Polaski

    Tim Polaski 79429

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    Don't forget to put the grapefruit shooter exhaust out the back and neon under hull lights!
     
  5. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Hahaha. Funny. I was thinking about putting on a stereo too :D . j/k im not a ricer. I may drive a souped up honda that goes faster than the average Civic but im not in to all of that. As a matter of fact, the whole website I moderate isnt in to that. Its a pretty cool forum though it has nothing to do with this one. www.hondacivicforum.com
     
  6. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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  7. Alan Glos

    Alan Glos Active Member

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    It is hard to tell what is a serious question and what is just for fun, but the foam inside a Sunfish hull is part of the structural make-up of the boat. If you removed all of the foam and then sailed it in heavy air and chop, the thin bottom of the hull would "oil can" something fierce and eventually fail/crack due to "fiberglass fatigue" just like metal fatigue on aircraft. So if you are removing all (?) of the(waterlogged?) foam, you need to replace it with something of equal strength. One way would be to remove the deck, remove the offending foam and then epoxy sheets of new foam to the hull and deck sections. The other way would be to remove the foam thru deck ports and then add a "grow in place" mixture of new foam thru the ports. Caution: Grow in place foam (a two part liquid that turns into foam) can get very hot when mixed and grown, and when it expands in a confined place, it can expand rather forcefully. Try a small amount of the mixture and see now much you need to fill but not overfil the interior of the hull and be sure to do this job outside. In any event, videotape the job - I have never seen a deck blown off the hull and burst into flames, but it might be downright entertaining to view! (just kidding)

    Alan Glos
    Cazenovia, NY
     
  8. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Well, im not really removing that much structure foam. Im only going to be removing 4 inches from the back. A small portion of foam will be remove so an 8" diameter basket can go down in the hole. Basically it wont really be affecting the boat much. However, the foam isnt water logged thankgod.


    Here are pics of the hole
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Molly

    Molly Women's Contingent

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    Re: Cutting out inside filling (sounds like a Twinkie repair)

    20 ga Incredi-boy,

    You can review the Class Rules here: http://www.sunfishclass.org/ just to be sure you are on top of everything.

    I'll have to go back and review them myself. I don't ever recall seeing a Porta-Potty mounted in a Sunfish before. I'm not sure if the Sunfish rules allow that either.



    ,,,,, and you really rented a slip for a Sunfish? That's gotta be a first.



    .
     
  10. weather-beaten Sunfisher

    weather-beaten Sunfisher vintage Sunfish RULE!

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    The rules are rather clear about modifications you can make to your boat and still be race-legal. You CAN install access ports, you cannot remove the foam inside the boat. Also, you can paint the boat with any coating you care to use, as long as it is applied in liquid form.

    As far as the Porta Potty goes, I think that would only be legal if it could be carried without a permanent installation...... since modifications that aren't specifically mentioned in the rules are prohibited. I read over the rules last night, and they do not mention any sort of sanitary installations.
     
  11. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Im really surprised that most of you have a big problem with modding a sunfish... really surprised. But you dont have to be nasty about it. But thanks for the "big warm" welcome so far. :(
     
  12. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    ",,,,, and you really rented a slip for a Sunfish? That's gotta be a first."


    Some people dont have trailers and hitches on their cars/trucks for their boats. Or yards/driveways to store them in. *Thanks* for your concern though.
     
  13. weather-beaten Sunfisher

    weather-beaten Sunfisher vintage Sunfish RULE!

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    Wow... I didn't see anything nasty about what has been written. Some things appear to have been written in humor, and could perhaps be mis-read as less than warm... but everything else seems perfectly friendly to me.

    You mentioned that you might want to race the boat, and several folks, including myself have mentioned what the rules say about hull mods in an effort to prevent you from making changes to your hull that would make it illegal.
     
  14. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Thanks for the quick reply. I understood what everybody said, and from what it looks like, the dry storage hatch has disqualified me. I wont be making any physical changes to the hull accept a paint job. O well, I digress.
     
  15. weather-beaten Sunfisher

    weather-beaten Sunfisher vintage Sunfish RULE!

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    actually.... the rear hatch could be construed to be a "access hatch" and might still be within the racing rules. Mine has a similar, though smaller, hatch in the same location to allow access to the inside of the back for inspectio / repair purposes.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the rules and concern are primarily for class-legal racing (and structural reasons) I personally own a highly modified Sunfish that I use for non-class racing amongst my friends (it will easily smoke class legal boats!) .... but I don't try to race that particular boat in Sunfish regattas.... or show it around much since some one-design sailors think that any mod is evil, and will result in the end of the free world as we know it.

    As far as modifying your boat for your own uses.... it's your boat. You should make it however you want it to be.
     
  16. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Thanks for the encouragement. Ill heed your advice with the structure and possibly try to work around it. : D . Do you have any pics of your modified sunfish?
     
  17. svlittlewing

    svlittlewing New Member

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    Just an aside on the slip rental comment. I understand the storage dilema! Transport is a bit easier managed, but still the idea of keeping the boat where you'll use it is great. A lot of wear and tear comes from moving these "foam sandwich" boats around.

    I think the humor you've experienced comes from the image of a Sunfish bobbing away complete with fenders and springlines next to a 70-ft. offshore cruiser. Personally, I've lived-aboard (not on a Sunfish!!) in a number of marinas and few people even leave their tenders in the water, let alone take out a slip for them. But some marinas have racks or dock-house storage for smaller boats like Sunfish and Lasers. Check into it, as it may save you a little $$ and a lot of bottom cleaning (not to mention that any leaks you do have or develop WILL quickly saturate your foam if you leave the boat in the water). Even if you do literally have to rent a slip, you may want to see if its ok to keep the boat on the dock next to your slip, or even create a float system so that you don't have to leave the boat in the water. I forgot to check where you're at, but especially if you're in salt water, even your nice new Teflon bottom will soon be covered in algae, crustaceans, etc.

    If you do have to keep it in the water, make sure you can get below your custom hatchways to check regularly for leakage. Also, a good antifouling bottom paint will end up being faster than even the smoothest Teflon coating!

    I had to leave my tender in while I did some topside work, and thought I'd just pull it out and give it a regular cleaning . . . I keep planning to floss my teeth once a day too . . . :eek:
     
  18. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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    Thanks for your input! There isnt any concern for the rack storage at my yacht club.

    And I understand that some people are just playing around but it would be nice to see a "lol, j/k, :p , ;) , :D " to indicate humor.

    Like wise, I'm done cutting out any foam in the 8" area of the rear hatch. I have removed a clean four inches of 'structure foam' and I highly doubt it will effect anything. However, I will fill in some more foam since the back will be absorbing a little more weight than normal.
     
  19. Gail

    Gail 24186

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    We all want to see a photo of the entire job once it's done!

    It's likely the 4" would be overlooked since it's the hatch area and not supporting deck to hull anymore anyway. Additional styrofoam anywhere would simply be for safety floatation.

    It is acceptable to remove excess 2-part expanding foam (non-white as the styrofoam is) that is the glue holding the white styrofoam in place. The expando-foam is yellow to brown in color usually. It also is flotation, but holds even more water than the styrofoam. It is NOT worth the effort to hunt it and pull it out, however. The more left in place, the stiffer your hull shall remain.

    All would be fine if you did not permanently attach your basket or bucket into the hull. If it is removable (just drops in and can be pulled out) it would then be legal.

    One hiking strap is legal and is all that is truly necessary (save $25 at least ...).

    At non-Regional, national, international, qualifying regattas I'm sure no one will really give a rip if you come and play the game. However, at anything qualifying for the Worlds people get very picky because the Worlds championship is truly that--and they don't want any perceived unfair advantage for anyone--whether it improves performance or not.

    So, have fun with your boat!!! --G
     
  20. remington870_20ga

    remington870_20ga Sunfish Modifier

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