Copyrighted works on TLF (esp drLaser)

Discussion in 'The Dockhouse' started by Merrily, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Bradley Green has a policy of not publishing Shevy Gunter's copyrighted material in its entirety. You must get permission from an author to publish a whole article. Only about 10% of any article can be quoted without infringing on copyright. Dr Gunter has not responded to any e-mail queries so Bradley has been unable to get permission to use his material in this way. I'm guessing that Bradley will delete the post soon for reasons of legality.
     
  2. Steve_Landeau

    Steve_Landeau New Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    If someone is that anal about another someone giving them a plug to sue for copyright, it's definately enough for me to make sure I don't buy his book. There are plenty of others out there that would be happy to take my money, and would also probably be happy for me to "talk about" what I read. Sure, we're not talking about reprinting the whole book here, but how stuck up can one be?
    Maybe a bit of a taste would be good for sales....
    Just when you think you've heard them all.
     
  3. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning


    I agree. It is often easy for people to be excessively protective about "their stuff" and in failing to see a bigger picture actually have a negative effect on e.g. sales. If people see excerpts and think "that is good" then I agree they are more likely to go and buy the book. Most authors love having their work quoted (provided acknowledgement is given so they get the benefits).

    However, I guess he wrote it, it's his copyright and it this the forum must behave as he requires in this regard.

    As you say, I will not be buying any of his books now as they are plenty of other good ones.

    Ian
     
  4. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    As far as I know, Dr Gunter hasn't published a book. He maintained the DrLaser website.
     
  5. Steve_Landeau

    Steve_Landeau New Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    I'm fairly new here, and have heard lots about the Dr Laser site, but have never seen what was on it. Sorry in advance for any ignorance.
    So, if the site was the only place it was written, and now it does not exist, can it actually be "copyrighted"?
     
  6. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Yes, it is copy protected material. I'm a writer, and my work is protected whether it is in print or not. The definition is once the work is fixed in any form. I'm sure Dr. Gunter still has the stuff written down somewhere, and it doesn't have to be available online or anywhere to still be his.
     
  7. odinsvitskjaldr

    odinsvitskjaldr Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Of course, someone could write an entirely new article in which different pro's ideas about technique and rigging are compared and contrasted item by item using approriate citations referencing ownership of any intellectual property incorporated into the new article's text. Discussing other people's ideas within the context of talking about a new idea (i.e., how are these folks' ideas similar/different?) is entirely legitimate. Perhaps that's a good summer project for a teacher to work on days when it's raining cats and dogs or there's no wind. ;-)
    And as far as cock-pit positioning goes, you have to look at the situation as a balancing act using a sharpened sense of orientation where you FEEL the balance. It's not just where I sit my butt, but also my body position that affects how balanced or "one with the wind and water" the boat FEELS. For instance, if I'm sitting toward the front of the cockpit but not up at the daggerboard and i lean my body forward to do something, then my center of gravity shifts and I should shift some body part back and/or out, such as my buttcheeks or a leg extended aft.
    I tell you, whitewater kayaking has taught me a lot about how boat balance works, especially surfing waves. I highly recommend any sailor to take a whitewater kayaking coarse that includes learning to surf waves, ride long wave-chains, make eddy-turns, and ferry in a straight line across a current without moving downstream. I find that doing some learning without the wind as a factor teaches me much about how to work boat balancing. If you would like to try whitewater kayaking as a method for learning hydrodynamics and boat handling, don't do it in a super-stable kayak or a sit-on-top. You can't "become one" with those kinds of boats. Do it in a kayak that you sit inside that lets you move the hull as if it were connected to your body at the feet, knees, hips, and waist; shorter planing hulled playboats are perfect. If anybody wants to discuss this topic more (ww kayaking and sailing as compliments) hit me up.
     
  8. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning


    I don't think there's any reason to believe Shevy's being a jerk about copyright, it's just that nobody can reach him to ask for his permission. He sort of went "off the map" a couple of years ago -- quit maintaining the DrLaser site, moved to Turkey, married a Turkish woman, quit answering e-mail, etc.
     
  9. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    To quote a couple of paragraphs from a website while one acknowledges that use, as Glasky has done above, is proper use of someone else's intellectual property. If the website was still online there should have been a reference to the actual website, but that is unfortunately not possible.
    It is not the author who is a jerk, since he is not the one who brought this up. Shevy's articles are helpful. So let's use these resources and stop threatening with deleting!
    Georg
     
  10. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Your math is calculated on the wrong thing. The entire article was quoted, and you can only quote up to 10% of an article. I think that Shevy has every right to protect his work, and Bradley can't use them. They must be deleted. Of course, I gave up my power to do that, but Bradley is still my friend and I look out for his interests and that of TLF.
     
  11. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    This is interesting! I have to disagree with some of the things you say. I don't think your conclusion that the comments must be deleted is so certain.
    First of all, I am not so sure how one should calculate the 10%. I do not know the definition of an article, but a couple of short paragraphs certainly do not constitute an article. If we consider the drlaser website as a book, it would be only a small section of that book, certainly much less than 10%.
    Secondly, if someone disappears what happens to the copyright? We are still printing the writings of people who lived 2500 years ago. Did they give their permission? This is somewhat different from someone who disappeared a couple of years ago, but if he does not protect his copyright, why should we not use it?
    Thirdly, we constantly quote articles and no one ever gets upset about it. Quite frankly, I think many people would be honored to be quoted on this forum! So, why why why would we not quote an article that (1) is good, and (2) the author does not seem to be upset about?
    Georg
     
  12. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Shevy Gunter has a PhD. I can assure you his copyright is protected.
     
  13. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    [​IMG]

    A little thread drift is bound to happen, but this isn't even about sailing Lasers....
    How about continuing it over in the Open Discussion forum
     
  14. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    Having a PhD does not matter.

    49208 you are right, but if the administrators (are friends thereof) threaten to delete a post, I guess it does matter!

    Georg
     
  15. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Cockpit positioning

    I agree. Thanks 49208. Cute icon, too!
     
  16. Bradley

    Bradley Administrator Staff Member

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    While I would love to put up every page of drLaser on this site and would even be willing to pay money for the rights to do so, I cannot allow his content to be posted on TLF until permission is explicitly granted. I am not going to lower myself to explain Shevy's attitute with name calling, but this sentence should be sufficient for those of you not familiar with Dr. Gunter.

    Thanks for understanding this policy.
     
  17. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    Bradley,

    It is clear to me that you do not want to put the content of DrLaser on this website. I agree: that would, of course, be a violation of copyright. But that is not what we are talking about. The topic here is whether one can quote DrLaser. I will not use the same words that have been used above, but I agree with them that quoting should not be a problem.
    Since you did not delete the post you seem to agree with that.

    Thanks,
    Georg
     
  18. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    I did some background reading on the topic of US copyright. I must say that it is more complicated than I thought. I don't think the 10% rule that has been mentioned above applies, but rather the notion of fair use. As I understand it, this means that one could possibly use someone else's work for educational purposes, on a non-commercial site. However, if one would do damage to the market-value of a work, one could still loose a case in court. I think DrLaser could argue for that.

    Hence, I have turned around and would suggest that if we are so concerned about this issue that the whole quotation should be removed. An essential part of the article is still there and this could hurt the market value of the content if DrLaser would ever turn this into a book. The forum is quite likely to loose a case in court, because it does not have the permission of the author and it could be argued that this is not fair use, since it damages the market value. Remember: it is up to the author to determine fair use, not up to someone who copies the content. Without permission you are doomed!
    So delete the whole thing!
    Georg
     

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