Clew Sleeve Releases under sail

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Cindy Taylor, Mar 15, 2007.

  1. Cindy Taylor

    Cindy Taylor Member

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    So I bought a new Laser Clew Sleeve and used it once before in about 20-25 mph winds when a front came through and had no issues while sailing. It was not as easy to put the hook on my sail as I hoped but it did work.

    Well to get ready for the new Wednesday night sailing season I bought a new Intensity Radial sail and upgraded my line attached to the clew sleeve to a slightly larger diameter. Last night I had lots of issues trying to get that hook on the Intensity Radial sail. It turns out that the ring is a little bit bigger than my Laser Radial sail. Well I finally got out and started sailing in about 15 mph and the hook seemed to be holding. I started doing screaming reaches with another Laser sailor and did about three long reaches. The last reach I released the outhaul to get more power. We started going upwind to get some downwind sailing in and thats when the hook released. I was fullying hiked out and almost ended up in the water. Well my husband helped me get the hook back on for the sail back to shore which I almost made it before my sail flogged and the hook came off again.

    I've installed the hook according to the instructions and with help from this forum. Has anyone else have troubles with the clew sleeve releasing under sail? According to the clew sleeve advertisement it is design to not allow unwanted release of the sail while allowing quick release during rigging and derigging. Maybe it is the Intensity sail, is there anyone out there successfully using the clew sleeve with an Intensity sail? I've heard that some people had trouble with the clew sleeve at a Master's event in Jensen Beach, FL recently and that could have been with a Laser sail. I would like to get this clew sleeve & hook to work but my husband doesn't think it will.
     
  2. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    That's disappointing. When I tried it, I never had a chance to sail in wind that high. I'm wondering if you can replace the hook with a shackle to make it work? Of course, the sail wouldn't be as close to the boom, but it wouldn't release accidentally.
     
  3. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    Hi Cindy,
    For the time when you used the Laser Class sail and had trouble hooking into the clew, can you describe a bit more the difficulty? Was it a tight fit, or the hook didn't twist properly, etc.?
    Also, can you tell me which side of the boom the open end of the hook is on?
    Thanks,

    Tracy
     
  4. Cindy Taylor

    Cindy Taylor Member

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    I have the clew hook on just like the picture at this site:

    http://www.sailingworld.com/sailing-gear/rigging/laser-clew-sleeve-48560.html

    I'll have to rig up with the Laser sail again, but it was a tight fit. I'll have to get a picture later, when I can. Right now we are expected to have a front come through with a lot of rain so it will probably be this weekend before I can upload a picture.
     
  5. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    A picture would help... also, I forwarded a link to this thread to John Christianson so, hopefully, he can offer some expert advice.

    I do know that it is important to have the hook on the port side of the boom (as in the picture you reference). When like this it should be a simple twisting action to attach or remove the clew - twist the hook to face forward, slide the clew in, twist aft and the clew is hooked in. As I discovered this past weekend (when I loaned my boat to someone and they switched sides with the hook!), it can be very hard to get the sail on and off when the hook is on the starboard side, and I think John said that on this side it will not hold the sail properly either (the person borrowing my boat this weekend did not suffer an indadvertent sail release).

    For what it is worth... I have spent a lot of time sailing in lots of breeze here in San Francisco with the hook, including a number of high speed crashes, and haven't had any issues with the clew releasing. Because of that, I've been pretty confident in its holding ability. But, of course, that doesn't mean it can't happen!

    Tracy
     
  6. John Christians

    John Christians New Member

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    Cindy, for starters you MUST install the fitting exactly according to the
    instructions, especially with the straight open end of hook on port side of
    boom. The sail will come off if you reverse it and you would be surprised by
    how many have done that. To hook clew on and off, both vang and outhaul
    sheet MUST be fully loosened. The hook is then rolled and twisted so the
    open end points forward. I grasp the sail clew with left hand and twist the
    sail so the grommet is perpendicular to the boom, making an easy target to
    push hook into. Then twist the hook so the end is straight down and a little
    aft.Shake the clew to seat the hook, tighten the outhaul and vang and you
    are good to go. Here in da nort countree wit da ice we don't know the
    " Intensity" radial sail and can't speak to it if the grommet is different from
    standard. Also, measure the pin length, which should be either 1/2" or 17/32"
    measured from the underneath side of head to the near side of the little hole.
    If it is 5/8", change it.
    Because this is a new fitting, I asked Laser Sailor if I could do an article to
    emphasize some critical details that some sailors miss. No OK so far.
     
  7. Cindy Taylor

    Cindy Taylor Member

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    Thanks John, I hope the Laser Sailor does allow you to do an article on the clew sleeve. I do not want to go back to the shackle, that was hard in windy conditions. I have installed it correctly based on the instructions and the detail photos that Tracy put up on this forum. I will measure the pin length and also ensure the vang/outhaul are completely loose before putting the hook on as you describe.
     
  8. BenSam

    BenSam New Member

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    I am having a similar problem. My clew sleeve works fine on my standard laser, but my son is having difficulty with his 4.7 rig. Both are set up correctly with the hook on the port side of the boom, but when engaged the 4.7 hook only points downwards - while the standard rig hook points aft.
    The clew of the 4.7 releases when the sail flogs.
    Any suggestions anyone?
     
  9. Cindy Taylor

    Cindy Taylor Member

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    John,

    I just got my boom from the marina and measured the pin and it is the 5/8" one. I will be replacing it and then trying the clew sleeve again.

    Thanks,

    Cindy Taylor
     
  10. abenn

    abenn New Member

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    Are you guys using bungy cord to pull the sail forward when you ease the outhaul ? I know that with the new fitting it reportedly slides so freely that you're not supposed to need this anymore, but I wonder if it would help to keep the sail clew tight against the front of the hook ? Esp when you ease outhaul or the sail is "flogging".
     
  11. Cindy Taylor

    Cindy Taylor Member

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    I never saw a need for that bungy cord when I upgraded my outhaul so I don't have it installed with the clew sleeve. In fact in Tracy's pictures (on this forum) do not show a bungy cord. On the second release on Wednesday night I heard a noise when the hook actually slipped as I was sailing toward the shore without the sail flogging. I knew it was about to release again and I was trying to work my way up wind a bit to be on the south side of the channel where I could possibly walk the boat in if the sail released again. Well near the opening of the marina when the winds got flukey because of being close to shore that's when the sail released again when the sail flogged but I was on the north side of the channel. My husband rescued me again.

    My pin is actually longer which I think will cause the grommet to be a tighter fit and harder to slide the hook on. The Intensity Sail which has a slightly larger grommet which is not seating properly. I am going to get the 1/2" pin and try to see if the grommet will seat properly before going out. I hope it works, I'll report my findings when I try it but it won't be today.
     
  12. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I found that sailing in light air or even close to drifting conditions, which we get in Ohio in August, I needed a bungy return.
     
  13. BenSam

    BenSam New Member

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    No - I don't have a bungy inhaul either - thanks for the suggestion.
    What grade of bungy would you suggest? Does it attach to the clevis pin on the sleeve?
     
  14. jimmy

    jimmy New Member

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    I have found that with the sleeve you need to attach the bungy to the sail gromet. At first I had the bungy attached to the clevis pin and it interfered with the hook preventing it from sliding completly over the gromet. I have not had any trouble with it comming loose, but I have not used it much yet. Seams pretty secure to me though. It does take some fiddling with to get it situated right, the hook barely fits over the gromet and you have to wiggle it a bit to make sure it sits correctly. I image if the intensity sail's gromet is different it will make a difference.

    Jimmy
     
  15. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    I used a beta ver. sleeve all last Summer without a problem. Only on legal sails, both full and radial, as that's all I have. Both are from North.

    I admit to not liking the 5/8" pin, so I switched to a bolt/nylock set very close to what a 1/2" pin would do.

    I also sailed without any inhaul, all summer, and at Jensen Beach, just to give it a try. I found the sleeve to be nearly friction free, but the rest of my 6:1 set-up, like the blocks near the mast, has enough friction to warrant the bungee inhaul. With the old strap set-up, you'd never notice there was friction in the blocks, etc., because there was so much from the strap.

    I'll be using 3/16" bungee, knotted around the boom forward of the old cleat, then led thru the clew grommet, then back to the cleat where it will be cleated (and adjustable). I rig it last, after the clew sleeve hook, and unrig it last, after the clew hook. I think this will help the clew/hook connection, not hinder it. No pics, sorry, as we have 3 feet of snow still.

    I love coming in and snapping the hook off, as this GGM can be mighty tired after 4-5+ hours in a breeze. But, I'd agree with Cindy, that a loose clew offshore is much worse.

    Al Russell
    182797
     
  16. BenSam

    BenSam New Member

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    Thanks Al - very helpful. I'll try it
     
  17. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    I found the exact same issue. My outhaul does not release well, and I believe it is the lines and not the sleeve. I am going to go retro and get some Spectra for my outhaul line.
     
  18. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Cindy,

    Online Yachting World article (I think) was reviewing the new fitting and made the point that with some sails the clew cringle sides can get caught up on the sleeve flange so the sail doesn't engage in the hook properly when rigging.

    The article has a photo - sorry don't have the URL at hand but found it with a Google search when trying to confirm that slight 'off centre' orientation you get when rigged was as intended.

    Only other possible causes I can think of might be the rigging of control lines (outhaul or shock cord return rubber) that somehow inhibit the sleeve/hook assembly from freely rotating to face the load - this used to be the main cause of de-tach with the older shorter hooks. The whole assemly needs to be able to rotate so the long hool end stays in contact at all times with the outer sleeve wall.
     
  19. giraffe

    giraffe New Member

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  20. madyottie

    madyottie Apprentice

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    I must admit I haven't been out when its howling since I put the new sleeve on, but I simply use a 4mm bungy as an inhaul, with one end attached to the cleat, and a large loop in the other end. the large loop is hooked around the end of the boom when rigging, and then simply flicked off once rigged. the tension in the cord pulls the loop up to the clew of the sail (not the sleeve), and it all seems to stay right where it should be!
    I think I'm sailing on Monday, so will try to get a pic of it then.

    Just out of interest, does anyone else out there still use an on-boom outhaul, or is everyone deck lead these days?
     

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