Class legal improvement questions

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by powergroove, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. Ross B

    Ross B Guest


    join the club, I've been trying to get stuff done for awhile, but talkin here won't get ya far
     
  2. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    Hey powergroove, are they Harken 16mm ball bearing blocks making up your vang? Have you tried that set up in heavy wind? I was under the impression that the loads in the vang can vary between 350-400kg max. At that load those little blocks would explode. The one at the boom end looks like a wire block which is fine.

    Which reminds me... I need one of those.
     
  3. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Saw, the harken vang is made up of 16mm's, except for the one that leads to the cleat, dunno what that is
     
  4. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    I have the harken vang. But the business end is something more than just 16mm blocks. Hey, if 16mm are fine then good news for me - DrLaser is wrong in that case. I've been looking for a replacement boom block and his recommendation is for some big gun hardware - check out his "designing custom systems" archive page.
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Saw, try this, the Holt Allen 25mm High Tension block for the boom side of the vang, through APS is product # HA4993, and has a breaking strength of 1653 pounds, it's used in the UK a lot. I've been using it for awhile and I like it, also it does not have a becket, as the line passes through the block, its pretty sweet.
    http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d261000/e260628.asp
     
  6. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    16mm and micro blocks(22mm) Interesting enough, the 16mm have a max working loa of 250#'s and the 2's have a MWL of 200#'s. The more purchase you have, the less load on each block, as it is distributed among all blocks. With the configuration used by myself and the class legal one, the "theoretical" purchase added by using another 3:1 purchase on top of a 4:1 (mine) and 5:1 on the Laser specific vang exit block, multiplies the load giving you a "theoretical" 12:1 and 15:1 respectfully. Engineers go ahead, I know all this stuff is debated everyday, and Im no engineer, but thats what "they" say it is, Im just a repeater. My point is, the 3:1 system will have more load, but still probably not within max working loads Can anyone figure that load out?
    I use esentially the same blocks on my F18 with a 16:1 downhaul that will easily break my mast(seen it) before it blows up the blocks. We play the downhaul in the puffs upwind, and downwind with the chute up, it REALLY makes a big difference depowering the sq top mainsail.

    I'll let you know if they hold when its not 102 degrees with a blustery 1 kt wind around here.
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Yawn. All this obsession with widgets and gizmos and little pulleys. It won't help you guys. You need more time in the boat. The more you practice the faster you will be. Right Rossums?
     
  8. Ross B

    Ross B Guest



    basically
     
  9. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    oh sure. Absolutely. I often wish I had a 12mm polyester mainsheet and a good ol' 3:1 vang. Yes siree.
     
  10. Crooked Beat

    Crooked Beat Member

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    Sailchris:

    I was at my rigging shop today and was discussing your setup. Do you just use harken bullet blocks? The shop said that that setup may not be legal, but as I read the rules the extra blocks are legal. Roster seems to think it is legal.

    http://roostersailing.com/articles/Info_Sheet_4_Laser_Rigging.html

    Comments?

    And while I am at it, I use the old outhaul system - around the mast and through two thimbles. Can I now put two block where the thimbles are?
     
  11. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    [​IMG]

    There are plenty of pics here showing conversions of the old rigging and where to put the blocks.



    http://www.wvaegir.nl/newrig_2.html

    Yes, you can have blocks where the thimbles were
    [​IMG]
     
  12. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Yes, almost. I used Harken Micro Blocks.

    It is legal because the rules specifically allow it. The rules say: "The vang system shall be between the mast tang and the boom key fitting and shall be comprised of the vang cleat block, the vang key block, a maximum of two control lines, loops and/or 'Optional' blocks for additional purchase with a maximum of 7 'Turning Points'."

    Again, it is legal because the rules specifically allow it. The rules say: "The outhaul system shall consist of a maximum of two control lines, 'Optional' blocks or loops for purchase and a maximum of 6 'Turning Points'."
     
  13. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Your vang system is not allowed under the rules. And what I don't understand is why you went to the trouble of designing your own non-standard vang system (and making more rivet holes in the mast to attach it) when your old vang blocks plus a couple of micro blocks would have been perfectly legal.
     
  14. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    I didnt really go to any trouble or spend any money on it, its what was laying around from other projects/boats, and it made sense (to me) to make it look like the approved vang. I can easily put together a vang like the picture above in the previous post for racing, and the holes, well, I hope the bottom section is sturdy enough for 2 holes. Would the 2 holes make it illegal too?

    Im coming around, just takes me longer than most...Its a wonderful little boat, claas seems strong, and its a hell of lot easier to put together than my F18.
     
  15. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    I don't think holes in the bottom section are illegal (except that, as usual if they aren't specifically allowed they are against the rules)...holes in the top section must be "permanently sealed with a rivet or similar to maintain the buoyancy of the mast." I assume this is for safety reasons.

    When you have to limit the number of competitors at major open regattas to numbers in the 400's, I'd say that the class is strong.
     
  16. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    Now you mention it, your bottom section of the mast is now illegal. The rules are secific about where things may be attached.
     

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