Class legal improvement questions

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by powergroove, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    In the rules it states that the only approved vang upgrade is the Harken block with a picture showing an exact model. Is this the only system that we can use? I rigged mine with a standard Harken pivoting exit block and a couple of doubles with beckets. I didnt go beyond the max number of turns, so whats the scoop?
    Also do you have to place the cleats for the downhaul and outhaul in a specific place to be class legal?
    thirdly, can you attach blocks to the eye strap in front of the mast, or do you have to use the plate that is shown in the class rules pix? legal or not, or is it just showing approved plates to replace the eyestrap.

    thanks again for the 411
     
  2. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    the bow eye?:cool:
     
  3. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    no, the eye strap aft of the mast insertion hole or whatever that thingy's called...My old tired boat had an eye strap, newer boats may come with the plate standard, sorry, havent played with these lasers long enough to know all the information
     
  4. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    if you have the old style, I beleive it has to stay that way, the line goes through it

    but if you have the new style, the shiny plate, then two blocks attach to it
     
  5. MasterMike

    MasterMike D22

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    The new block plate screws into the same exact screw holes as the fairlead behind the mast on the old boats.
     
  6. Mawill

    Mawill New Member

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    PG,

    If your just starting out, don't want to spend the cash on replacing the fairlead at the base of the mast, and are not planning on racing in the worlds any time soon, you can tie two blocks to the eye in order to run the cunningham and the outhaul through.

    Keep in mind that if you do do this, you will have to get the double cleat that fits into the same holes that the cam cleat (the one mid way between the leading edge of the CB and Mast) is placed. Otherwise, you've no way of cleating both the lines.

    Matt
     
  7. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh New Member

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    I think Harken vang is not the only brand allowed, You could purchase an "Holt" one the expenditure is a little lower (but don't forget that often efficiency is directly proportional to cost ;)).

    At least if you don't want approach the new system you can upgrade your old 1:3 vang to 1:12 using a triple block plus a pair of singles... anyway you'll be in the soup when trimming the vang while hicking hard (...think about the old cleat block set)
     
  8. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    My vang is rigged without the very expensive new vang hardware. I just used the old hardware and a couple of bullet blocks. The setup is 6:1 and works really well.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Crooked Beat

    Crooked Beat Member

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    Could you show a diagram of your vang setup?

    Thanks
     
  10. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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  11. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    It's basically this setup, but with a bullet block instead of the bottom pin on the boom block, and another bullet block instead of the sleeve. Look at my photo above.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Crooked Beat

    Crooked Beat Member

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    Thank you both for the quick responses!!
     
  13. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    I have rerigged with Harken products, its just not the one in the the picture on the class rules pdf form. I plced 2 micro blocks on the eye strap behind the mast and run my downhaul and my outhaul thru these seperately. Then they run back to 2 different Harken cleats.
    So my original questions was...
    Does the Harken cleat HAVE to be the one pictured, because thats kind of what it reads, and as you guys have said, if it isnt written, then consider it illegal
    Second , does my downhaul/outhaul cleat position have to be in an exact certain spot on the hull to be legal?
    And, do I really have to have a plate on the hull to run the blocks for the DH/OH lines, or can I attach 2 blocks to the existing class legal eye strap. It seems silly that I would only be allowed to run a line thru the eye strap as Ross descibed in an earlier post if the class upgrade allows for 2 truning blocks there. Im not replacing the eye strap with a home made plate as another poster described, just adding blocks to an existing eye strap.
     
  14. 49208

    49208 Tentmaker

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    You have to use one of three cleating blocks - the original vang, the new builder supplied Harken or the new builder supplied Holt vang. No other cleats or cleating blocks.

    Yes, the outhaul and cunn cleat have to be mounted on the builder supplied plastic base, which uses the existing screw holes that the original clam cleat used.

    You are only allowed to attach the turning blocks to the builder supplied metal strap - The rules clearly state you can not attach them to the existing fairlead.

    The class rules for the most part are pretty clear and easy to understand as far as rigging. http://www.laserinternational.org/rules/ilcarule.htm
     
  15. John Christians

    John Christians New Member

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    Dear Powergroove,
    1. You must use the vang as supplied by the builder.
    2.Deck cleats of your choice must be mounted on the deck block supplied
    by the builder.
    3.Blocks at base of mast must be attached the the builder supplied fitting
    that replaces the eye strap. JC
     
  16. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    Im not sure if thats just absurd, bordering on exclusiveness, or a pocket lining ploy by someone, but that has sure gone beyond the premise of keeping it a "one design".
    I guess you wont see me on the race course.
     
  17. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    [​IMG]

    Mine(illegal?)

    [​IMG]
    Class legal

    Whats the advantage?
    Granted I will be ordering the base plate for the cleats, thats just nice, but to order the whole vang system to be legal is what Im having aproblem with. Someone slap me and tell me Im not making any sense....
     
  18. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    It's the condundrum of laser sailing.

    The rules are deliberately strict to prevent "deep pockets" sailors from creating expensive clever innovations within the rules to get a (temporary) advantage that all other sailors who wish to compete must ultimately adopt.

    But these same rules cut both ways to prevent cost-cutting frugal sailors from innovating and "making do" with bargain basement improvements and parts obtained from the swap meet.

    Pick your poison, but if you want to see what happens in the uncontrolled arena, look at the fashion in tillers and tiller extensions, which are mostly uncontrolled. A few frugal souls (me!) use the old wooden tiller with the cheapest aluminum extension they can buy. Many/most sailors lay down the big bucks for the fancy carbon fiber bits. In the long run, opening up the rules is proven NOT to save people money.

    Practical advice: keep an eye on ebay and craigslist. Every now and again, someone will unload a class-legal-builder-supplied vang at a reasonable cost. I bought my holt-allen for 75 bucks. Until then, keep using your existing set up. No one's going to protest you for cost-cutting at any local or club competition. But you probably want to dot your i's and cross your t's when/if you're ready to step up to regional/national/continental competitions.
     
  19. powergroove

    powergroove Member

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    I guess I have been in a Formula class too long, but let me tell you about that class.
    Hulls are being made by 4 manufacturers here in the states, a couple more in Europe where 100 boats at a regatta is typical. They can be of any shape, design, or configuration as long as they weigh 395#,and are 8.5 ft wide and 18 ft long.
    Spars, mast booms spin poles are the same, as long as they are aluminum(cost saving) and are of certain lenghts and diameters. But you can get a wing mast or standard teardrop, doesnt matter.
    Sails have to conform to certain specs, but any builder can build them.
    Daggers/rudders can be of any shape but cant be carbon, andyone can build them.
    At the last 2 F18 NA's the top ten had a representing of all manufacturers participating, not a single boat has a distinct advantage in any wind, nor does any sail shape, mast shape, hull shape seem to make any boat faster. You can add do dads and whataflicks all over the boat to make it easier to sail, and safer for crew and skipper, but you know what really matters in the end?
    The loose nut on the tiller. Im not saying I want to come into the Lser class and change everything, Im just saying that opening up a few things but keeping the essential(sails, hulls, mast, foils) the same probably wouldnt increase any ones ability to beat anybody else, it sure doesnt in the F18 class.

    just my .02 Flame away!
     
  20. bjmoose

    bjmoose Member

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    Always is. :)
     

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