Centreboard Friction Pad - New or Old Design?

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Andy B, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Andy B

    Andy B New Member

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    Which type of pad do sailors feel is best?

    I ask because I think the new style pad may have stressed the board on my old 200000 boat and I had to repair board at the point where the pad sits when the board is fully down. The board is the new glass type.

    My new boat has come out of the factory with the old style pad and I am not sure whether to leave it or change it for the new type.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    I'd like to hear more about this. Isn't the rubber on the new brake softer? How can it "stress" the board? What was the damage like and how did you repair it?

    I have one or two old spare brakes left, but also thought of changing to the new one. I understand it covers more of the back end of the opening, so that there would be slightly less water coming in that way.
     
  3. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I've had the new pad for a few years. I love it. The Teflon/rubber material does not wear or degrade in the sun like the old pad does. Also when you mount it you can do so in a way that does a better job at keeping the board in the center of the trunk. I still use the old material boards. Not the GLP board.
     
  4. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Ps. The new pad does NOT cover more of the trunk. It actually sits more forward and exposes more of a gap. However, I've not had any issues with water shooting up through the gap.

    The new pad does not fit in the same mount holes as the old pad. You have to fill those and put the mount holes more forward on the trunk to get the pad to hold.
     
  5. Ceebee2

    Ceebee2 New Member

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    Is that class legal? I was under the impression the new pad had to be fitted to the existing mounting point. I do find it does not work when fitted like that but thought I was not allowed to move it
     
  6. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Good question. The centreboard brake is mentioned only in the deck measurement diagram, which isn't totally specific about this. If I were a measurer, I'd allow new screw holes, because there are no measurements given, and the idea that the new brake should use the exact same holes is not explicit.

    Measurement Diagrams – International Laser Class Association
     
  7. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    In the 2017 class rules book it's covered on page 39 under article 14(g) of the centerboard section. No mention of screw hole location.
     
  8. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    That rule is about the centreboard stopper (which goes through the board), not the brake (which is on the deck).
     
  9. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Ah. Yes.

    So, page 43 shows a diagram of the brake fittings with descriptions. It "Shall be attached in position B". No mention of the mount holes. I'm rolling with what I have until the rule is re-written in a more specific nature. It's the only way the replacement brake will work anyway....

    Thing has been around since 2009....
     
  10. Lasersailor166131

    Lasersailor166131 New Member

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    I use the new brake but see little difference between the new one or the old one on my other boat. I race with a tight bungee and haven't noticed any wear on the new system
     
  11. Andy B

    Andy B New Member

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    I have taken the new style friction pad off and although it looked good from above the soft rubber has worn through to the hard plastic on the underside. The soft rubber is only a few mm thick on the underside and has worn through quite quickly. My best guess is the damage shown on the trailing edge of the board might have been caused by a small part of the trailing edge of the board having to take all of the stress as it sat in the groove in the hard plastic, possibly recovering from a capsize. This is the second time this has happened.

    It seems to me it would be better if the soft rubber was much thicker on the underside of the pad.

    IMG_4428.JPG IMG_4429.JPG IMG_4427.JPG
     
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  12. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Ouch. My board is fine but this makes me want to check the underside of the brake.
     
  13. Andy B

    Andy B New Member

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    I thought I would look at this more closely so I checked the pad on another boat and cut one of the pads in half.
    The second pad has worn in the same way, right through to the hard plastic.
    In the image you can see the dissected pad in between the two cases.
    The blue area is where the rubber has been cut. The pencil line is start of the groove when the pad is new.
    You can see that on a new pad the soft rubber is only 4mm thick at the base of the fitting. If you look at the wear pattern, the difference between the pencil line and the blue area, the geometry means the wear at the top of the fitting is 4mm and the wear at the bottom is 7mm which is why the board has cut into the hard plastic by 3mm on the underside.
    IMG_4440_2.jpg
     
  14. Andy B

    Andy B New Member

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    I took a walk around the dinghy park yesterday when we had 18 boats on the water.

    Most of the new boats have the old style brake and the centreboards are OK.
    Boats with the old style foils and the new brakes are OK, just wear on the paint where the pad grips the board.
    I found the in the boat in the pictures below which is sailed by a 70 kilo sailor every week and has a new style board and brake.
    You can see exactly the same type of damage as I have. Based on this I wonder if the new boards simply cannot take the additional stress placed on the trailing edge as the brake wears and therefore becomes hard at a single point.

    I intend to take what seems to be the safe option and stay with the old style brake.
    Interestedly UK suppliers do not seem to have stocks of the new style brake, perhaps the technical teams are aware of the issue!

    IMG_4443_2.jpg IMG_4442_2.jpg
     
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  15. Andy B

    Andy B New Member

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    Latest from the UK supplier on the new style brakes I ordered some time ago.

    We have been advised that the friction pads will not be available for the foreseeable future. We will cancel your order unless advised. No payment has been taken. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Regards sales
     
  16. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Thanks Andy for the effort you put into this issue.
    When the new version came out a few years ago, I was tempted to get one. But then I adjusted my old brake a tiny bit and lost interest because my board now stayed up when wanted.

    It's interesting (?) though that it was stated at the time that the new brake had been extensively tested...

    PS: Do new (2017) Lasers have the old brake or the new one?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  17. Ceebee2

    Ceebee2 New Member

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    I find this very confusing and think I must have something wrong with my set up.
    I have never had trouble with board staying up. My problem is board always comes up several inches when beating.
    I don't get how the brake can actually do anything because with the bungee pulling the top of the board forward any friction will be at the top/front & bottom/rear - not top/rear
    where the pad is
    What am I doing wrong?
     
  18. Riv

    Riv Member

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    These new brakes look like poor option. Badly designed, obviously the manufacturer has not bothered to do his research properly. I look after 4 club lasers and we have the old brakes and have not got any issues, the boards do not float up much, about 2" in a blow, but as we tend to raise the board in strong winds a bit this does not matter. We have strong bungees to the bow fairlead which keeps it all in place well.
     

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