Ban Coach / Nannie Boats?? Already Illegal?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    If you read my earlier comments on this topic you will see that my position has been that assistance whether before, after, or during a race should not be allowed.
    If sailors are really using coaches because they are not experienced enough to sail alone, then, as I have previously suggested, perhaps we should divide the scoring for the regatta into two groups: a coached fleet (the "Trainee Fleet") and an independent group (the "Yachtsman Fleet").
    Coaching is a great resource for training. But, when coaches are on the water during a regatta, they are typically providing support in the form of food, water, shelter, and advice. This support is not primarily designed to coach sailors to make them into better competitors. Rather, it is designed solely to make the regatta easier for them.
     
  2. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    Lol that is ridiculous!! if you divide the fleet in two we would have 6 laser classes... i bet the races would be very interesting lol if there were 120 lasers in one event there would be about 20 in each class.. really cool right?! and what if it was a smaller event with only 40 or 50 boats??? if you are pissed because you don't win races or because some sailors can eat dry food between races and you can't, get a coach! it's not that expensive to join a sailing team and it makes sailing much more fun!
    if you just think that those who have coaches are trainees you are plain wrong!! i don't think that all the olympians, the pre-olympians and semi pro sailors are trainees... and all of them have coaches!
    if you wan't single handed sailing without any help go for the mini transat or vendee globe or something like that... we are sailing lasers not offshore sinlgehanders!
     
  3. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    All the "olympians, the pre-olympians and semi pro sailors" would still be able to beat me without coaching support during a regatta. We are sailing Lasers not racing Formula 1 cars. You don't need a pit stop between races.
     
  4. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    "All the "olympians, the pre-olympians and semi pro sailors" would still be able to beat me without coaching support during a regatta."
    That's right in the same way that having a coach watching my races doesn't influence my results at all!!! so if it's with the results that you are worried you are wrong...
     
  5. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    I wouldn't have a problem if your coach was just a spectator and was only out on the water to observe his students. But you already told us that your coach is more than a spectator ("my coach is only there to give us feedback after the race, to help us in case we need and he put some extra clothes or food in the rib"). If having a coach doesn't affect your results, then why bother having one in the first place. Oh, right, to make it easier for you, therefore influencing your results.
     
  6. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    this is a stupid discussion and you sure aren't keeping an open mind and trying to understand other peoples opinions... i already told you that i have done many regattas without any kind of support so i know what you mean... and yes it's more comfortable having a coach but it doesn't influence the results!! racing is about the results! so if the results are the same there is no problem! if a coach was a super expensive thing that only a few could have i would understand the problem... but it isn't! it's cheap and only those who don't want don't have one! a friend of mine is the portuguese radial and 4.7 national champion and was on our team until a couple of months ago, and he chose not to have a coach for now.. but he had one for all his life and i can tell you that his results didn't change!!!
    i don't see the problem in having a coach watching races... and certainly i don't see an advantage on the results!!! i'm sure that you are talking about these stuff but you never had a coach...
     
  7. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    There's obviously no way to determine if the results would really be the same without coach support. I don't care about sailors receiving coaching during training outside of regattas, that's what coaches are for. What I don't like are the perks that coaches can provide during a regatta.

    I have never had on-the-water coaching for my Laser sailing, but I was coached for years during my college sailing days. Coming off the water between rotations knowing that your coach could tell you what you had done wrong was a great help. Getting advice on the wind conditions was also helpful. But college sailing IS a team sport. Every team had coaches, or at least other teammates to provide support. Laser sailing is NOT a team sport and coaches have no place in singlehanded dinghy racing (notice I said "racing" not "practicing).
     
  8. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    "Every team had coaches, or at least other teammates to provide support. Laser sailing is NOT a team sport and coaches have no place in singlehanded dinghy racing "
    So you are saying that because laser is a singlehanded boat we should ban also clubs sailing teams to race because they are a team and can help each other checking the course and the line etc... So only freelancer-sailors can race lasers... is that it??
     
  9. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    and what about Olympic Teams?

    or country teams that travel to things such as worlds?

    '
     
  10. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Essentially, yes, if you are sailing as a "team". But your interaction with other sailors is probably OK unless you actually start "team racing" (the only other exception I can think of would be if your coach was sailing around coaching you during the race).
     
  11. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Chill guys. You are making points but the fight is totally unnecessary.

    Certainly the thread title is inflammatory and I must apologise for that....But...the object was to catcha ttention and have a discussion.

    Certainly the coach boats provide a srvice both to the individuals and the game.

    Certainly the coach boats render an advantage.

    Certainly it feels good to get help.

    Certainly coaches help sailors.

    We all know that.

    Certainly having divisions for individual versus coaches sailors would divide the competition. Simply giving awards for the top individuals who are assisted and another set for those who are not assisted would do little to impact the game other than to create more winners.

    back to the previous few posts:

    Each of you obviously have opinions about what is fair.

    Certainly the person who signs up for an event ought to know what to expect.

    If no definition is offered, each of you seems to EXPECT a different set of conditions.


    All I see in the above discussion is more need for the NOR and the SIs to define the acceptable level of personal assisitance.

    At least we could all know what is fair before we sign up and prepare ourselves to play the game we are about to enter.

    This notification in the NOR policy...if accepted by you guys...leaves us with the problem as I see it.

    There really ought to be a defined default level of acceptable personal outside assistance.

    The NOR should either say noting and the dfault would be assumed, or mention which other level will be acceptable.

    I believe the default level in singlehanded racing should be, "No outside assistance shall be allowed unless that assistance is under the organizational control of teh regatta organizers.

    Why?? I believe the competitor who does not receive equal assistance as that which is available to all other competitors should be able to file for redress.

    If you want to play some other game...Please define it and tell us about how that game is among the individual sailors as opposed to teams.

    I'm fine with playing any game as long as I know what game I am playing..

    and I enjoy playing a variety of games.

    What is yours??
     
  12. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Me? I think I'll put on a regatta where you MUST have outside assistance. Where you MUST violate rule 42. You MUST use practice sails. And instead of a penalty turn you have to run around in front of the mast, then back again. If you win, you have to give up your rudder in the next race. It will be called the Laser Doodah Regatta.
     
  13. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    If your coach provides no advantage, then why are you wasting money, time, and gasoline having him on the water?

    I think your coach boat does provide an advantage, which is precisely why you go to the trouble of having it there.
     
  14. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest


    Hahaha this explains it exactly
     

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