Ban Coach / Nannie Boats?? Already Illegal?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Arrogant and obnoxious kid sailors!? :eek: Surely you jest. I can't conceive of that... :rolleyes:

    Have you even been around collegiate sailors?
     
  2. gordo

    gordo New Member

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    i didnt feel like reading the whole 5 pages so i apologize if im repeating something but i feel i should point out that the racing rules of sailing only apply at the prep signal. after that point there may be no contact or coaching bettwen "nannie boat" and the sailor. between races there is no reason why they cant interact. nannie boats are also on the water for saftey reasons and just purly to help the sailors. it is in no way illegal for them to be on the water
     
  3. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    It sounds like the presence of Mommy boats (or at least spectator boats) that were too close to the racing action almost changed the outcome of the Olympic Trials:

     
  4. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    It sounds like the presence of Mommy boats (or at least spectator boats) that were too close to the racing action almost changed the outcome of the Olympic Trials:


    I'd say no to this, only because the coach/support fleet never came inside of 100 yards of the weather mark. There were 1 or 2 photo boats inside of this, but they know when to move. Brad took Andrew way out of the race area, in a match race move, that must have been amazing to watch. The RC Mark 1 boat was probably way closer, more like 30-40 yards, but I assume moved at first sight of the luff.

    The Trials RC were very serious about coach boat violations of some very strict rules. 4 Coaches lost their "flags" for a day for violations earlier in the week. This meant their boat stayed on the mooring for a day, although they could still go out on another coach boat, driven by a coach with a "flag". This was a good example where strict enforcement, eliminated further problems.

    "Support" boats had stricter rules, such as no verbal or other contact from first flag of the day, til the last boat finishes.

    Al
     
  5. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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  6. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    Wow, it seems like everyone has a position on this one. I think having the ability to have your friends/family on the water watching you race is not a problem. If they hold your water bottle or some food and you hang on the side of their boat between races to talk that's cool too. I'm actually considering getting a RIB for the wife and kid to ride around in while I'm racing.

    Each event should have a specific area on the water that spectator boats should stay within. If they come out of those areas anytime during the days sailing, (except to go to shore or deal with an emergency) then the sailor they are connected to gets a DSQ.

    I don't have a problem with coaching. However, I do think it is unfair to have guys on the water giving you the AC run down before or between races. such as, "the right is favored" or "170654 has you by 2 points so make sure you beat them" or "oops your top section broke, here take this one and a new sail out here on the water" or "the last weather report has a left shift coming in about the time you will be half way up the weather leg".

    If you have a coach great for you. Get the debrief at the end of the days races. Take your professional weather report before the days racing begins. If you have a breakdown go to shore for repairs like everyone else has to.

    Lastly I think this is an almost impossible thing to police. Who can control what people talk about between races?

    That's my position.
     
  7. TheBoathouse

    TheBoathouse New Member

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    My position is one big YAWN.....all the whiners need to get over it....
     
  8. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    I think coach boats and coaches at regattas are a mockery of the laser class rules for strict one-design sailing and should be not allowed
    First off any information from a coach is a HUGE, LARGE ,BIG advantage,
    ex1. coach tracks wind direction and makes a wind graph to determine wich side of the course is favored:eek: then tells sailor
    ex2. coach watches start, start is general and coach tells sailors who was over and who wasnt giving them a very good feel for the line
    ex3. coach drives to each side of course gathers wind info then tells sailors exactly what will happen on course
    ex4. Cork, Canadian Sailing TEam, American ST and other sailing teams all consult with their coaches between races.
    ex5. most of the sailors from "royal" clubs constantly do better than people from other clubs. why is that b/c they r supirior sailiors, hmmmm.. wait im talking about optis were the ppl sailing can only have possibly been sailing for a max of 5-8 years. Sure royal clubs have good training schemes but r they realy that much better than others, or is it because they have olympic coaches/sailors telling the sailors exactly what to do on the course:D:). If you dont think this happens i gurantee u it does considering the opti story was about me.

    Rule 41 the one right before 42
    41 OUTSIDE HELP​
    A boat may receive outside help as provided for in rule 1. Otherwise, she shall not receive help except for an ill or injured crew member or, after a collision,from the crew of the other boat.

    rules one is safety
    unless a sailor is in DANGER they shall NOT recieve HELP!
    Wait !!!
    this brings me back to,
    ex.1 coach HELPing sailor by telling them wich way to go
    Point proven
    You wouldn't allow a sailor to sail with a not class aproved sailmaker which makes a miniscule difference, so why let some ppl get coached or helped
    while others don't get any clearly giving the advantage to the person being coached.
    STOP on water coaching at regattas it is not fair and I will protest you under rule 41 if I see it happening! ​

     
  9. Eric_R

    Eric_R D10 Secretary

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    The racing rules only apply when you are racing which is between the prep flag and finish. When you are between races you can do whatever you want. You can't protest people between races. Rule 41 means you can't help people while you are racing which is fine. If you do receive help during a race you must retire.
     
  10. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    I totally agree.

    The whiners who want their Nanny Boats need to leave the babysitters their mommies hired on shore and go race..all day...!!

    Within the spirit of competition sailors must make do with only whatever help is controlled by the organizing authority, therefore controlled by the RRS ( under threat of having to grant redress) and made equally available to 100% of the competitors.

    The whiners who want to bring their own personal advantages need to get with the program!!

    Do it on your own like the real sportsmanlike sailors already do it.

    Spend the rest of your life practicing and obtaining every piece of equipment you can legally use but on race day.....

    It is time to step up and play the game!!!

    Singlehanded!!!

    Nonoe of the >>>> Me and my team team vs the singlehanders.

    None of the >>> I can beat you even if your mom sends Elvstrom out to coach you.

    Let's all play the same game!!!

    Just one on one.

    Once you leave shore everybody competes with the same resources for the day.


    One on one!!!

    Singlehanded!!

    Thanks for chiming in!!

    If I lived nearby, I would go to the Boathouse and buy every legal part I could buy to wear or put on my boat!!

    I might even buy a coach boat for my PREPARATION days.

    I am with you 100%. Quit whining about your need for special individual help.

    Let's just race against one another and see who is the best sailor!!!

    Teoo Mom and the coaches to get on a laser and come out for the race,

    Nobody should be wasting a perfectly good Laser racing day sitting on a damn powerboat!!!

    Thanks for another decade of great support for the game!!

    I hoipe all the Mommies and coaches buy their new Lasers from you too!!!

    Rock on!!
     
  11. sk8ingsailor

    sk8ingsailor Member

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    When I went to the orange bowl, I didnt have a coach boat. Sure I would have liked one, but we dont have one. I definatly felt that the boats that had coachs had a advantage. They were able to have water in the boat, other clothes, and even spare parts!
     
  12. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I've just been looking at an "Avis de Course" for a regatta later this month and a note at the bottom says that no nanny boats will be allowed on the water. Its a lake (but a decent sized one). actually it says "Seuls les entraîneurs accrédités par le club organisateur de la manifestation sportive et acceptant de participer à la sécurité sont autorisés sur l’eau" (my translation being "Only coaches approved by the organising club helping with security are allowed").

    Ian
     
  13. USA182772

    USA182772 Member

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    This reminds me of a funny Muhammad Ali story told seconds before the first Ali- Fraser fight...Trainer Drew Bundini was yelling at Ali.."WE are going to hit him with the right and then WE are going to hit him with the left "...And when the bell for round one sounded Ali steped out into the middle of the ring and turned around and said to Bundini, " I thought you were coming" !
     
  14. laser167373

    laser167373 New Member

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    they're acceptable if more than 3 people use the coach boat and if the coach boat helps other people. if that does not happen, well life sucks for whomever doesn't have a coach
     
  15. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    and three is a magic number because??
     
  16. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    The way I see it is that it makes people form teams, which means less coach boats. When I traveld to Orange Bowl as part of the CISA team, there were say 10 Fulls and 10 Radials on the team. And we had one coach boat for the 20 of us. I personally think 1 boat is better than 20, but thats just me.
     
  17. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    The question I posed and discussion I attempted to start has to do with ...

    DO WE INTEND TO PLAY A SINGLEHANDED GAME?

    or

    DO WE INTEND TO PLAY A TEAM GAME??

    The answer to my question has been>

    1.We are playing a team game
    2. Some like the team game
    3. Some do not like the team game and want to play one on one.
    4. Some don't get the concept of the discussion and enter posts which blabber endlessly and sometimes with great passion about that which has nothing to do with the discussion.

    Welcome back Ross
     
  18. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    I sail a radial at national level (here in portugal) and sometimes i go outside for some bigger events usually in spain... And 90% of the fleet has a coach in a rib out on the water, including me! i'm on a team and we are about 10 sailors..
    i don't get the point of the discussion at all!! i don't see the huge advantage you guys are so annoyed about over those who don't have one!
    i surelly don't win races because of the coach!!!! he only gives me feedback AFTER the race and helps us or any other sailor on the fleet in case we need outside help!
    in the regatta instructions usually there is a part that states that coach boats CAN´T go inside the course and must stay at 50meters away from the laylines during the race, so i don't understand why coaches in your races go inside the course. and every time a coach infringes any rule his team is penalised!
    You guys keep saying that coaches tell their sailors the side to go and the line bias etc... i can assure you that this has never happened to me and i have had many coaches in my sailing carreer! i always sail a little bit upwind with a teammate or another friend before the race to check the line, the favoured side, etc... my coach is only there to give us feedback after the race, to help us in case we need and he put some extra clothes or food in the rib... nothing else!!
    During the race it's me, my boat and all the other sailors!
     
  19. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Your coach provides outside assistance. The outside assistance he provides is not available to sailors without coaches. You would be able to race without the outside assistance, but you choose not to. That's why I don't like it.
     
  20. all_ratone

    all_ratone New Member

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    That is outside assistance AFTER races!! he doesn't go and give a water bottle at the mark... i have done many regattas without a coach also and so i do know what it is! and i tell you that it is very stupid to ban coaches!! in my team there are a some sailors that just started sailing and i'm sure that they wouldn't go out without a coach because they aren't very experienced and don't feel comfortable sailing alone!
    if coaches were banned many people would stop racing and would be demotivated to sailing their lasers!
    i'm not rich! and i don't have a personal coach... if you are so annoyed about the people who have one and you don't, join a club and enter their sailing team! i pay 70$ a month to the club and i can use all the club facilities (including store my laser, coaching etc etc...)
     

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